TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[tiktak]

Max,
Remember when we talk about potentiometers?Look at this picture!Its look like umax use 10kB,100kB this mean log?
But this maybe because umax is newer version?

[Max]

Max,
Remember when we talk about potentiometers?Look at this picture!Its look like umax use 10kB,100kB this mean log?
But this maybe because umax is newer version?

Hi,
could be so... there is the MCU there.
But are you sure they are log pots ?

European and US pots are labelled e.g. 10KA for 10k linear pot
However, if you have a japanese maker same linear pot then it will be labelled B10K, if product follow their labeling standard.

Tesoro used asian made parts that time.

Best regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Yes you are right! they are labeled B10k not 10kB!!
It's look like you are well familiar with TESORO.
Can you please answer to my previous question about BATTERY?

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Yes you are right! they are labeled B10k not 10kB!!
It's look like you are well familiar with TESORO.
Can you please answer to my previous question about BATTERY?

Hi,
you can use a 12v battery lead-acid gel type 1.2Ah would be fine.
You could use also 10 AAA cells NiMh to get 12V say 700mAh or more, you'll have much less weight with NiMh, cause the lead-acid batteries are heavy due to lead inside + gel weight etc.
For the Leto's schematic you have to supply with 12V (B+) at Vs point, pin14; negative is your gnd on circuit, the same thing.

I'm familiar with homemade Tesoro's !
But if I have to buy a new detector they will be on top of my list for sure.

God bless Tesoro Electronics.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

HI

Hi,
Max.
Can you tell me can I recharge this 10 pieces AAA 1,2v battery with ordenary AC/DC adapter set to 12v?Or I have to buy some special charger?
10 pieces conected in series and adapters + to battery + ;adapter - to battery-?
Thanks
p.s.I will go now to check one new source of wire.Hope can buy from them.

[tiktak]

Hi,

The probleme in nulling my coils is my multimeter!
Ivconic adviced me to conect Tx leads to TGS and RX directly to multimeter which is in 2V range,BUT my multimeter is with two AC ranges:
-200
-750
According to manifacture range 200V is with 100mV resolution!
I noticed when try nulling that its show 00.0- 00.1 and were thinking that this is under 1 mV ,but its not true!
And I will have to find relyable multimeter too.

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Can you tell me can I recharge this 10 pieces AAA 1,2v battery with ordenary AC/DC adapter set to 12v?Or I have to buy some special charger?
10 pieces conected in series and adapters + to battery + ;adapter - to battery-?
Thanks
p.s.I will go now to check one new source of wire.Hope can buy from them.

Hi,
you can buy one charger or use this simple regulator.

Current limit = 1.25/R
You need 1/10 of you battery capacity limit.
For 700mAh -> 70mA
R= 1.25/0.07 = 17.85ohm use 18ohm 1/2w
Then charge overnight for 12hours. Batteries must be discharged first... at least at 80% to avoid troubles.
Don't leave batteries connected to it without external supply.

Best regards,
Max

[Leto]

Originally Posted by tiktak
Hi,
Leto.
What kind of battery did you use?
And can you please tell me where to conect those ground points?
I wanna try your audio modification too.
The speaker is going in sane ground point as before,but where I should conect others?
What coil did you use with your TGS?

Max already answered your question.. but in other words: amplifier is powered directly from battery (Vs+,gnd-). I doubt you will found LM388 as it's not produced anymore - in this case you can use any small power audio amplifier...
About appropiate coils everything has been posted here by ApBerg, Ivconic, Max, Nelson and others..it's up to you to wind it and play with it.
I suggest you get a large stock of 0.25mm wire.

By-the-way: I found excelent replacement for LF353:
I tested LMC6082 and gained some stability and centimeter on coin..
LM8272, LMC6032, LMC662, LMP7702 should also work (National)

[ivconic]

...

"Ivconic what do you think can I use CD3240 insted of LF353?
Will this afect performance?"
I checked this today. Havent seen any differences.It can be used
to replace LF353. (CA3240)
"Are you using metalbox for device and ground all to box?"
I am using plastic box.

"Ivconic what is this coin 1cm?The smalest I think is 1,5cm D!
please check again!If this is true than I am not even close to the
results that I have to achive!!!!
Can you preforme air test with 1 euro coin and post results please!"
Yes, you are right! Again i made stupid mistake by claiming something
without checking it first!? I am using that coin for several years, never
occured to me to measure it!? Somehow i conceived it is 1cm...?
Truth is; it is 2cm diammeter!? This really changes all your points of
looking at my results?
Yes, i agree,it would be almost impossible to detect such small coin(1cm)
with 22cm DD coil.
I have problem,issue with myself; things i am used to "see" my way are never
checked preciselly...Sorry!
Distances i already reported are TRUE. Do not have doubts.Only coin diammeter
was wrong. Actually it is 2cm. Dont know why i made that mistake?
This is international forum.I am also visiting many other simillar places on
the net. Have conntacts with many people, mostly i do talk in inches....must
be that i memorized this as one cm instead one inch...later all mixed up due
very tough rhythm i've been living lately. Very exausted, so few resting moments.
"Have we to split hairs here ?"
Yes Max, i agree with you. But this time TikTak is right, 1cm more does really
make difference! Although it is not easy for me to admit, i made huge mistake!
Erolunall, to tell you the truth; i never tested it on large items. I made it
for coinshooting, and coins&small items are only what interesting me.
But, if you wish i will test it these days on larger items and later post
results here.
"And NE566N what do you think is this make differance in audio.Ivconic tell that
he search for another solution!This mean that its not so good modification."
Yes it is worth of trying. Works better than without it.But i want some more,
that's why i am looking for another solution.
About LM566, well, problem is in signal level. It need voltage to produce certain
frequency - VCO. But at TGS output signal level is not compatible with what we
need to drive LM566. Some kind of converter is needed.
Realizing that, i had to think other way,so after a while i just put J107 to trigg.
it to -12v. It is sort of trick to provoke LM566 to start working. But sound is
still "monoharmonic",short and anoying. Benefits are louder sound and abillity to
adjust frequency of audio....
I am not satisfied at all with this. I imagined it other way. If we could use
variabile TGS output voltage to drive LM566 in manner to change audio frequency
respecting voltage changes at TGS output. That would be some progress! i experimented
some time, but without succes. Something is missing? I can not find proper way
to make level conversion there.
TGS output is in range -4.xx - +3.xx volts. Only positive part is starting LM566.
Another problem is small "resoultion" in those +3.xx volts. All changes in
frequency at LM566 are so fast i just cant hear differences.
I think 4046 would do the job better, only dont have clue how to use it!
Yes, i have all those schematics with 4046, but wired up in quite different manner,
not useable in this one...Need some time to think about it.


Still wandering! There is some 555 to check.....What do you think?

[Max]

"Ivconic what do you think can I use CD3240 insted of LF353?
Will this afect performance?"
I checked this today. Havent seen any differences.It can be used
to replace LF353. (CA3240)
"Are you using metalbox for device and ground all to box?"
I am using plastic box.

"Ivconic what is this coin 1cm?The smalest I think is 1,5cm D!
please check again!If this is true than I am not even close to the
results that I have to achive!!!!
Can you preforme air test with 1 euro coin and post results please!"
Yes, you are right! Again i made stupid mistake by claiming something
without checking it first!? I am using that coin for several years, never
occured to me to measure it!? Somehow i conceived it is 1cm...?
Truth is; it is 2cm diammeter!? This really changes all your points of
looking at my results?
Yes, i agree,it would be almost impossible to detect such small coin(1cm)
with 22cm DD coil.
I have problem,issue with myself; things i am used to "see" my way are never
checked preciselly...Sorry!
Distances i already reported are TRUE. Do not have doubts.Only coin diammeter
was wrong. Actually it is 2cm. Dont know why i made that mistake?
This is international forum.I am also visiting many other simillar places on
the net. Have conntacts with many people, mostly i do talk in inches....must
be that i memorized this as one cm instead one inch...later all mixed up due
very tough rhythm i've been living lately. Very exausted, so few resting moments.
"Have we to split hairs here ?"
Yes Max, i agree with you. But this time TikTak is right, 1cm more does really
make difference! Although it is not easy for me to admit, i made huge mistake!
Erolunall, to tell you the truth; i never tested it on large items. I made it
for coinshooting, and coins&small items are only what interesting me.
But, if you wish i will test it these days on larger items and later post
results here.
"And NE566N what do you think is this make differance in audio.Ivconic tell that
he search for another solution!This mean that its not so good modification."
Yes it is worth of trying. Works better than without it.But i want some more,
that's why i am looking for another solution.
About LM566, well, problem is in signal level. It need voltage to produce certain
frequency - VCO. But at TGS output signal level is not compatible with what we
need to drive LM566. Some kind of converter is needed.
Realizing that, i had to think other way,so after a while i just put J107 to trigg.
it to -12v. It is sort of trick to provoke LM566 to start working. But sound is
still "monoharmonic",short and anoying. Benefits are louder sound and abillity to
adjust frequency of audio....
I am not satisfied at all with this. I imagined it other way. If we could use
variabile TGS output voltage to drive LM566 in manner to change audio frequency
respecting voltage changes at TGS output. That would be some progress! i experimented
some time, but without succes. Something is missing? I can not find proper way
to make level conversion there.
TGS output is in range -4.xx - +3.xx volts. Only positive part is starting LM566.
Another problem is small "resoultion" in those +3.xx volts. All changes in
frequency at LM566 are so fast i just cant hear differences.
I think 4046 would do the job better, only dont have clue how to use it!
Yes, i have all those schematics with 4046, but wired up in quite different manner,
not useable in this one...Need some time to think about it.


Still wandering! There is some 555 to check.....What do you think?

Hi,
could do the job but still think that 4046 is too cool for that.

Circuit like this could do the job and you can set upper frequency of e.g. 100Khz... so getting about 20Khz for a 3 volt swing.

Components need to be modified, this came from a Tesla coil circuit.

BTW have you looked at Leto's post of circuit by Rumensat (second picture)... kind of VID using RGB led, if we wire that and trigger the vco using preset for frequencies we could gain multi-tone id for coloured metals. Do you think could work ?

Kind regards,
Max

[Leto]

555s

For Ivconic:
this circuit can be also usefull (from JF1OZL) -> NE555 is used as a free-running oscillator. The oscillated frequency is 166kHz. This frequency is too high to be heard by the year of the man. In normal oscillator , the time-controlling capacitor "0.0022uF" is connected to the ground. But in this case, it is connected to the output of the audio amplifier. Therefore the width of the pulse is modulated by the audio signal. And it is heard by the speaker..

[Hush]

Hello Hush.

Think you want to make a open centre coil ?
Look at post no: 22. I made some opencentre coils, works well.
For the 25 cm coil the 117 turns are to many.

You can connect your coil to the transmitter part from the goldensabre and look for the freq that is given , use for golden 15 nF cap, freq must be somewere 14 kHz, if lower freq then reduce the 117 turns
Good luck

Ap

Hi ApBerg, thank you for replay!
As you wrote, I've connected coil on transmitter and frequency was 11.7 kHz
Then connected cap 15nF parallel with coil, like you suggest, freq drop at
8.9 kHz.All the time I heard constant tone in head phone, is it normal? When connected cap, tone was lower.
About coil: that should be double O coil like Ivconic's. Nexus made similar.
To Geo: very good idea,maybe try it later. Now seems my multimeter was right! I' try to reduce number of turns.
ApBerg,Geo,man from Mars thanks a lot!
Salute you!

[tiktak]

Hi

Hi,
Max.
Is this what you talking about?But what is this diode?
1N4148?

[ApBerg]

Hello Hush

Good results. The transmit freq. is the sourse for al the things that are going to work. The 4024 makes the freq for the audio sound, so if you chance the transmit freq. then aslo the audio sound is going to chance.
I think that it is ok that the sound is there for some seconds, this is the batt check, but I think the sound has to fade away after some seconds, this depends on the power sourse you use, the higher the voltage the longer the sound stays.
Let us know the results for your OO coil ?

Succes

[Qiaozhi]

Ohhh..
I am in big trouble!
I spend all bloody day to wind coil, wind by wind, without any crossing of wires.I've used Chemelec inductance calculator and got results:
For 10 inch inside diameter coil (256mm) - O concetric coil
coil lenght: 0.2 inch (5mm)
wire diameter: 30 AWG or 0.27 mm with varnish
turns:117
inductance:7.1mH
I think that calculator is very, very good .
Everything looks fantastic, but no, no my friends! My freaky multimetar "told"
me the coil inductance isn't 7.1 mH (that should be RX coil), but 9.8 mH!

Let's say y is specific resistance (I haven't that bloody letter).

R=y x l/S then l=R x S/y

y for copper is 0.0172 ohm x mm2/m
resistance of my coil is 33 ohm

S=r2 x 3.14 ( I haven't bloody pi too) S=0.125 2 x3.14=0.0491 mm2
l=33 x 0.0491/0.0172 l=94 m

So, wire lenght of my coil is 94 m.

let's calculate on other way:
O=2 x r x 3.14 O=0.256 x 3.14=0.8 m

0.8 x 117 turns= 94 m - the same results.
So what, you can say, but now I am sure the number of turns is correct-117
And what now? Should I trust to my multimetar , it looks good, think it isn't from China, but who knows? Or should trust Chelmec?
Immediatly need help... help... help...
Yours Hush

Using my own calculator (see attached) I used 127mm inside radius, 0.27mm wire thickness and 117 turns. This gives an inductance of 8.98mH, which is closer to your measured result. How accurate is the value of the inner radius? This is a sensitive parameter, and only a few millimetres can change the inductance significantly. The calculator also shows a coil thickness of 5.62mm, whereas you have 5mm. Since the calculations assume a square cross-section to the coil, your's may be elongated.
Hope this helps.

By the way, Chinese multimeters can also be good.