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  • Coils, what's that?

    Dino - firstly, be practical. Please do not expect to perform magic if you do not have some necessary test equipment. Over and above a basic multimeter, it is a very good idea (that's putting it mildly) to have an inductance tester. An LCR meter is very convenient, and a cheap frequency counter is also a good idea.

    I purchased a combination meter from an Ebay store last week, (a long overdue investment). It's a Mastech MS8222, that I got for a reasonable price. My new meter is NOT fancy, but it measures "L-C-R", and even frequency to 20kHz. It has reasonable accuracy and resolution specifications. It seems to be adequate.
    If you don't already have LCR and frequency measurements covered, then you should look into it. I know that I am "lucky" by being in Ebay's backyard, but I think that you can probably find international sales.

    Find a free download called CoilCalc. It is pretty cool. There are other coil calculators. Qiaozhi posted one I think he created. There are many free coil calculators that can be found on the internet. You just have to look! (Use Google.) Also, find some wire specification charts so that you can convert wire guage to diameter, and to help calculate ohms per unit length of wire. There are many free coil calculators, and many MANY wire guage conversion /specification charts. Nobody can do the work for you. You must remember that "coil calculators" are only as good as the data you feed them. Also, remember that the calculation results will probably be based on assumptions that are, more than likely, counter to your intended goemetry! X, Y, and Z (length, width, and height) dimensions must be FUDGED. For instance: is your coil shaped more like a donut or a tube? Or is it planar? And, boy howdy they are different. THINK about how the data you are entering will be interpreted by the computer. You can also use a pencil and paper and research the coil formulas!! (Just kidding, don't do that.) No, I'm not kidding. Oh boy, my brain is getting soggy so I'll wrap this up.

    Oh, yes, don't neglect to read over the previous thirty or so pages of this thread - and other related threads - for some good ideas.
    Good luck!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by porkluvr View Post
      Find a free download called CoilCalc. It is pretty cool. There are other coil calculators. Qiaozhi posted one I think he created. There are many free coil calculators that can be found on the internet. You just have to look! (Use Google.) Also, find some wire specification charts so that you can convert wire guage to diameter, and to help calculate ohms per unit length of wire. There are many free coil calculators, and many MANY wire guage conversion /specification charts. Nobody can do the work for you. You must remember that "coil calculators" are only as good as the data you feed them. Also, remember that the calculation results will probably be based on assumptions that are, more than likely, counter to your intended goemetry! X, Y, and Z (length, width, and height) dimensions must be FUDGED. For instance: is your coil shaped more like a donut or a tube? Or is it planar? And, boy howdy they are different. THINK about how the data you are entering will be interpreted by the computer. You can also use a pencil and paper and research the coil formulas!! (Just kidding, don't do that.) No, I'm not kidding.
      The problem wih CoilCalc is that it is based on Wheeler's Equation, which is only good for calculating single-layer coils such as solenoids. My own calculator is based on Brook's Equation, which is more suitable for a multi-layer coil like those found in metal detectors.

      Comment


      • Another Coil!

        Forget calculators....schmukctors! Work!
        Here are datas for another deep coil;

        -DD coil used wire 0.25mm(0.28 with varnish)
        -"D" shape former 255mmx137mm (suitable for Bulgarian plastic housing),
        -102 windings for TX ....6.00 mH
        -108 windings for RX ....6.60 mH

        2cm nickel coin detects in air at 35cm,no false signals...very stabille!


        Actually i faced huge problem here;

        So far i first made coil, than searched for various plastics for housing, but at this one i already had Bulgarian housing and had problems when nulling in it...When nulled coils cant fit into housing!? Few mm's over !

        So i had to correct size of winding former a bit, later when nullled to fit exact the given housing....Huh! At the end it is working very good....Now i have standard winding former for bulgarian "27"cm housings...
        Difference was in 4-5mm....Hell of a job to wind up again and again....

        Try this, you'll have best coil so far, for TGS...

        regards!


        P.S.
        Dont have prepared photos, maybe tomorrow i'll post those...





        Comment


        • Ok Ivconic, so you mean this forms and dimensions?

          What about nulling separations, do you have demensions?

          Any news about LM308 replacement, cause i haven´t any luck on findind this part here on my country. Some people said that old computers have this on the board, but i m not shure wich computers.

          Thanks and best regards

          Nelson



          Originally posted by ivconic View Post
          Forget calculators....schmukctors! Work!
          Here are datas for another deep coil;

          -DD coil used wire 0.25mm(0.28 with varnish)
          -"D" shape former 255mmx137mm (suitable for Bulgarian plastic housing),
          -102 windings for TX ....6.00 mH
          -108 windings for RX ....6.60 mH

          2cm nickel coin detects in air at 35cm,no false signals...very stabille!


          Actually i faced huge problem here;

          So far i first made coil, than searched for various plastics for housing, but at this one i already had Bulgarian housing and had problems when nulling in it...When nulled coils cant fit into housing!? Few mm's over !

          So i had to correct size of winding former a bit, later when nullled to fit exact the given housing....Huh! At the end it is working very good....Now i have standard winding former for bulgarian "27"cm housings...
          Difference was in 4-5mm....Hell of a job to wind up again and again....

          Try this, you'll have best coil so far, for TGS...

          regards!


          P.S.
          Dont have prepared photos, maybe tomorrow i'll post those...




          Attached Files

          Comment


          • Originally posted by nelson View Post
            Ok Ivconic, so you mean this forms and dimensions?

            What about nulling separations, do you have demensions?

            Any news about LM308 replacement, cause i haven´t any luck on findind this part here on my country. Some people said that old computers have this on the board, but i m not shure wich computers.

            Thanks and best regards

            Nelson
            Hi,
            LM308 was employed in many old design of audio stuff, guitar effects, rats, mixers etc etc and also early cd-drives and laser-disc readers by e.g. philips.

            At now is almost impossible to find in that kind of stuff... but if you have old stuff maybe you can.

            Some cd/laser-disc player were used also in some arcade games and recreational devices for public places.
            I saw some of them years ago and there were too lm308.

            About computer... I think that if present there maybe was in some magnetic or optical device/per. not computer itself.

            It was largely employed cause of limited noise, relative hi-input impedeance and low distortion.

            Best regards,
            Max

            Comment


            • Hi Max and thanks for orient me on where to look for LM308.

              Well, here we have something that is call "mercado persa", a place where you can find losts of used and new things, losts of electronics parts, electronics boards, old radios, tv, computers, etc. So i hope this weekend i have the time to go there to see if i can get this hard to find device.

              Regards

              Nelson


              Originally posted by Max View Post
              Hi,
              LM308 was employed in many old design of audio stuff, guitar effects, rats, mixers etc etc and also early cd-drives and laser-disc readers by e.g. philips.

              At now is almost impossible to find in that kind of stuff... but if you have old stuff maybe you can.

              Some cd/laser-disc player were used also in some arcade games and recreational devices for public places.
              I saw some of them years ago and there were too lm308.

              About computer... I think that if present there maybe was in some magnetic or optical device/per. not computer itself.

              It was largely employed cause of limited noise, relative hi-input impedeance and low distortion.

              Best regards,
              Max

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ivconic View Post
                Forget calculators....schmukctors! Work!


                Actually i faced huge problem here;


                Difference was in 4-5mm....Hell of a job to wind up again and again....
                That's why it's useful to start off with a coil calculator.

                Comment


                • D


                  No Nelson, 255x137mm are dimensions only for one "D" you have to make...Not both togather!


                  Quiaozhi, aint no calculator solved me neither one coil so far. All those are pure theoretical....As old radioamateur i can swear on this!

                  Regards!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ivconic View Post

                    No Nelson, 255x137mm are dimensions only for one "D" you have to make...Not both togather!


                    Quiaozhi, aint no calculator solved me neither one coil so far. All those are pure theoretical....As old radioamateur i can swear on this!

                    Regards!
                    Hi Ivconic,

                    I've just wound a DD coil after calculating the number of turns using my coil calculator. It was correct first time!
                    No need to "wind up again and again....".
                    Theory and practice can sometimes match.

                    Comment


                    • Hi Ivconic, yes you are right, i miss that.
                      Thanks

                      Nelson



                      Originally posted by ivconic View Post

                      No Nelson, 255x137mm are dimensions only for one "D" you have to make...Not both togather!


                      Quiaozhi, aint no calculator solved me neither one coil so far. All those are pure theoretical....As old radioamateur i can swear on this!

                      Regards!

                      Comment


                      • bark

                        Originally posted by ivconic View Post
                        Forget calculators....schmukctors! Work!
                        Work is a dirty word. Who told you I was a schmucktor?

                        Comment


                        • calculators...

                          Hi,
                          calculators are good for simple e.g. round coils and effective if program takes into account variables and doesn't use just one formula.

                          I've tested many... no-one-sinlge-time one of these revealed to be useful on made calculation of e.g. DD coils cause shape is out of their expected ideal round-coil...

                          But when round coils are needed they are useful at least to have an idea of how many turns one need etc.

                          The trick of calculating the inside area of a D shape coil not often gives at the end the desired precision we need... so in that cases is better make some hand calculations and round-up the number of turns... then experiment till one reach the desired result.

                          Till now I never saw any real general purpose calculator that take into account e.g. coil shape... so that could be used directly to get values we need.

                          Kind regards,
                          Max

                          Comment


                          • Hi,
                            the best coil calculator I found is this.

                            It's good to find inductance... test and see with your eyes.

                            But have its lacks... it find about the right inductance but other parameters are missing... just easy to add to the program so I think authors want keep it simple but that way why not include e.g. a resistance indication too ?

                            Mistery !

                            Kind regards,
                            Max
                            Attached Files

                            Comment


                            • I meant in the inductance calculation pane! Damn !

                              Comment


                              • Ok Thank's Ivconic for help on this. Ill try to make something out of it and we will see the results.

                                Best regards Dino

                                Comment

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