TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
I make the first one charging circuit that you show.

The cells I bought are 1,2V 700ma .

What could be wrong?
I conected like it should be.
Can the probleme be in my AC/DC adapter?

[dino]

GS

Hello all and thank you for reply's.
And as usual i have some other questions for you.
Ok....should i replace some elemnts from GS PCB and try to make GSlight? Is that smart thing to do as many of you have made GSlight as i saw?

Regard Dino

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
I make the first one charging circuit that you show.

The cells I bought are 1,2V 700ma .

What could be wrong?
I conected like it should be.
Can the probleme be in my AC/DC adapter?

Hi tiktak,
I guess you mean NiMh cells, right ?

Ok if you had problems with first circuit you probably haven't discharged them first at least untill 20% of nominal capacity (less is better).

NiCd and NiMh cells need that battery are cycling charged-discharged to give the best... and avoid bad chemical reactions inside the cells that may damage them (e.g. H2 bubbles production...)

If you try putting in charge an already charged e.g. NiMh cell you'll probably damage it.

If e.g. your AC/DC supply gives 15v or more dc voltage and you try to connect battery (pack of 10 cells) already charged the current limiter will came in place limiting to the imposed charge current BUT you'll actually OVERCHARGE the cells pack.

This have catastrophic effects on NiCd or NiMh: overcharge is destructive for these devices... that's why simple chargers and even complex/bought ones always auto-discharge totally or near-to-totally cells before charge start.

So next time you need to charge this kind of batteries first use e.g. a 15ohm 20W or 30W big resistor to remove residual charge of them... so after e.g. 20 minutes disconnect resistor and start the charge using the limiter.

You can use e.g. also a 12v old car lamp... that need e.g. 0,5 amper and watch light drop ad indication of dicharging.

But I suggest you buy one small charger if you're not sure of what to do / want automate the process.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hello all and thank you for reply's.
And as usual i have some other questions for you.
Ok....should i replace some elemnts from GS PCB and try to make GSlight? Is that smart thing to do as many of you have made GSlight as i saw?

Regard Dino

Hi,
I think the only difference is that on GSlight you haven't notch filter.
So performance are the same and circuit is simpler. That's it.

Do you need notch ? Rejecting or accepting just one kind of metal (range of disc ) ?

I think that for many of us this feature of notch is , at the end, not so important... but if you need build the standard GS.

Best regards,
Max

[nelson]

Ok Ivconic, has always, many thanks for your unconditional support.

Ok here are my anwers to your previus post:

Nelson, Max already answered correctly on your question about trimmer...
I M OK WITH THIS.

"My problem is that my TGS with TL081, runs fine, but i can not get more than 22
cms for a 1 cms coin on air."
Yes, you came to very important point where you have to take problem of making coils
more seriously.
NOW I M WORKING ON THIS, HAS I GAIN MORE EXPIRENCE

It is obvious that you are not beginner any more, now is time to go one step further.
First, to be awared of full TGS performances, YOU MUST obtain LM308 and put on TL081 place.
Find 2 of LM308 and replace those TL081...just for a while. You will notice some
differences. You'll detect same coin at 24-25cm than...Next is to start making another
coil. You already have one coil ready and it will serve you as reference to make another-
better... Be sure that LF353 is at front end for now. Do not replace it with other...
I M STILL LOOKING FOR LM308 WITH NO SUCCESS, BUT I LL ALSO FOLLOW ALL PREVIUS INSTRUCTIONS TO SEE WHATS GOING ON.

Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time
to solder it over 1N4148...look at my last schematic, you have everything there...
I LL SEE WHERE I SHOULD PUT IT, THANKS.

Next is to make coil i described last here; 255x137mm;
Wire gauge is 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish)
For TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH
THIS IS MY NEXT COIL UNDERCONSTRUCTION.

itself. Capacitors i used are all pollyprophilene (any syntax error?)...except those
few with picofarards values..
At RX there is 15nF = not changed, also P.P.type..
At TX also original values = not changed, also P.P. type...
All resistors are 1/8w,5%....all original values, no changes at all.
YES, I LL CHECK AGAING ALL COMPONETS AND ALSO TRY TO REPLACE FOR BETTER MATIREALS, SPECCIALLY FOR CAPS.

THE REST IS OK.

WHEN I GET MORE RESULTS I LL POST IT.

BEST REGARDS AND THANKS AGAIN FOR SUPPORTING OUR HOBBIE.

NELSON

[Max]

Nelson, Max already answered correctly on your question about trimmer...

"My problem is that my TGS with TL081, runs fine, but i can not get more than 22
cms for a 1 cms coin on air."
Yes, you came to very important point where you have to take problem of making coils
more seriously.
It is obvious that you are not beginner any more, now is time to go one step further.
First, to be awared of full TGS performances, YOU MUST obtain LM308 and put on TL081 place.
Find 2 of LM308 and replace those TL081...just for a while. You will notice some
differences. You'll detect same coin at 24-25cm than...Next is to start making another
coil. You already have one coil ready and it will serve you as reference to make another-
better... Be sure that LF353 is at front end for now. Do not replace it with other...
Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time
to solder it over 1N4148...look at my last schematic, you have everything there...
Next is to make coil i described last here; 255x137mm;
Wire gauge is 0.25mm (0.28mm with varnish)
For TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH
These are exact datas of coil i made. Coil is working very good. 2cm coin at 36cm distance,
but most imortant is fact, detector is calm and stabile, no false signals at all.
Discrimination is PERFECT.
I dont see why your results are not better? You should pay much of attention on device
itself. Capacitors i used are all pollyprophilene (any syntax error?)...except those
few with picofarards values..
At RX there is 15nF = not changed, also P.P.type..
At TX also original values = not changed, also P.P. type...
All resistors are 1/8w,5%....all original values, no changes at all.
For example, if you cant find 24k than use 2 of 12k in serie, also for 200k use 2 of 100k in
serie...etc.etc.
Diodes are all 1N4148, ZD iz 4V7 (not 4V3)....Fets are J107. Transistors are as noted on sch...
Today i replaced 2N2907 with 2N3906...same, no differences...or maybe (i am sugestive) 2N3906
works even a bit better?? I am not sure, might be subjective...

So, Nelson and others...it is not clear to me why cant you gain better performances...?
Except Max! I think only Max reported very good results also....Anybody else?
Leto is conversant constructor...Hey Leto, what are your results? Come here friend! Help us...
I would like to help you more Nelson! But i really gave here most accurate datas.No more secrets.
Everything i posted is true.
The only reason of average results could be that you missed something in your work? What?
I would like to know also...
Forgot to mention nulling! Again and again; nulling is probably most important step in making
good coil...I done this so many times...again and again.It is not easy to null some coils at all!?
While,at the other hand, some coils turns to be very easy to null!? 80% of my coils i nulled
very easy, but 20% of coils (same data) gave me pretty hard time and a lot of pain to null them?
Why is that so? I guess minor differences from one to another, eventual drifts etc...
Last...i have hunch that if we use thicker wire than 0.25..but strictly on larger diammeters
formers...let's say over 24cm...than it will be better to use 0.3mm wire than 0.25mm.
I guess Max already pointed on this. I havent try yet but intend to do asap.
So i have hunch that we can gain even more depth with larger diammeter and thicker wire..?!
Intend to make 32cm coil with 0.3mm wire these days. When finished i will report here results.
Nelson, here is photo of coil i already described ....Regards!

Hi Ivconic,
"Another important thing is 1M resistor...KT315 pointed me to it. After installing it
parallel to diode i gained much better performances...If you didnt previously, now is time"

do you mean R55 = 1M ... what's the effect on audio output ? better ?

Kind regards,
Max

[porkluvr]

smart? -yes

Max- thanks for posting the PCB and schematic. This thread has taken so many twists and turns that basic things tend to get misplaced.

Dino- I think you should disable the notch circuit. Prioritise getting the main circuit working correctly. The notch circuit is extra complication and can cause headaches.

By simply not connecting one or all of the notch switches should effectively remove the notch. You will then have the basic GSL and can make various changes that Ivconic suggests.

Get the basic circuit working before re-connecting the notch, or you can remove the notch components to save battery power.

[kt315]

Hi kt315,
have you noticed that components are really similar/equals to tesoro Royal Sabre ones..?

Even TIS75!

Kind regards,
Max

hi Max,

yes, I have. I have seen this comment on schematic 'NOTE: SEE TESORO ROYAL SABRE' and I think it is some sign. thanks. but frequencies of the detectors are different.

regards

[ivconic]

Vladimir!

Another nice work, done by Vladimir!

[ivconic]

1M

Yes Max, R55=1M....Much better response on smaller targets.Overall much better audio,strong,stiff....

TikTak i really dont know what is problem with your coil. Should turn to a sidekick to solve your problem....
I gave here 100% accurate datas...

[Max]

Yes Max, R55=1M....Much better response on smaller targets.Overall much better audio,strong,stiff....

TikTak i really dont know what is problem with your coil. Should turn to a sidekick to solve your problem....
I gave here 100% accurate datas...

Hi Ivconic,
yes it works ... loud now. Thanks.

BTW have you tryed changing the capacitor (in your schematic is labeled C25) from 22nF to 1nF ? It gave me a faster response of detector on deeper small items (but I've also TLC2262 instead of TL062).

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi tiktak,
I guess you mean NiMh cells, right ?

Ok if you had problems with first circuit you probably haven't discharged them first at least untill 20% of nominal capacity (less is better).

NiCd and NiMh cells need that battery are cycling charged-discharged to give the best... and avoid bad chemical reactions inside the cells that may damage them (e.g. H2 bubbles production...)

If you try putting in charge an already charged e.g. NiMh cell you'll probably damage it.

If e.g. your AC/DC supply gives 15v or more dc voltage and you try to connect battery (pack of 10 cells) already charged the current limiter will came in place limiting to the imposed charge current BUT you'll actually OVERCHARGE the cells pack.

This have catastrophic effects on NiCd or NiMh: overcharge is destructive for these devices... that's why simple chargers and even complex/bought ones always auto-discharge totally or near-to-totally cells before charge start.

So next time you need to charge this kind of batteries first use e.g. a 15ohm 20W or 30W big resistor to remove residual charge of them... so after e.g. 20 minutes disconnect resistor and start the charge using the limiter.

You can use e.g. also a 12v old car lamp... that need e.g. 0,5 amper and watch light drop ad indication of dicharging.

But I suggest you buy one small charger if you're not sure of what to do / want automate the process.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi,
Max.
Yes they are NiMh cells!
Please explain agai how to discharge!
Where to conect this resistor?
I think that you are right.I havent discharge the cells,just played with the TGS and were thinking that they should be charged!!!
And were in hurry and put them to cahrge for 12 hours!!
As I told you now when conect to TGS the voltage drops to around 6,6.And when check one buy one cells 7 are 1,2 and 3 shows around 0,6!
Can only this 3 cells be damaged?
How can I be shore that the batteries are discharged to 20%?
I will check now how much curent my ac/dc adapter is giving!
Thanks

[tiktak]

Yes Max, R55=1M....Much better response on smaller targets.Overall much better audio,strong,stiff....

TikTak i really dont know what is problem with your coil. Should turn to a sidekick to solve your problem....
I gave here 100% accurate datas...

Ivconic,
I now that your data are acurate!!!
I dont have doubts in you but my resistance is aweys higher then yours.
We are using the same number of turns and the same wire!
I ask you because you have experiance!
What battery did you use to suply the circuit?
As you can see I have problems with this.
Thanks

[tiktak]

Max,
Which is this R55?

[Max]

Max,
Which is this R55?

Hi,
the one in latest posted schematic for GSlight, go to page 35.

Best regards,
Max