TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Aziz]

Hi Aziz
Interesting, congratulation, and hope usable in measurement not only programming toys.
But what is input parameters (how coil shape is influenced in visual xyz results?)?
What happen if you put third cold coil somewhere in field, can you to define it?
Thanks

What you mean by "cold" coil?

I can do many transmit (TX) coils, as needed. The magnetic strength field is a vector field (has strength and direction). On the pictures above, the direction is not displayed. I put 10 turns and and a drive current of 1 A for both coils (not relevant at the moment).

It is interesting, to compare different coil types before making them. It will be also interesting, to compare omega with concentric coil. I will do this, when I have more time.

[ivconic]

ivkonic: "I opened it and spoted funny pcb, but descent populated with compnents... Coil is large and pretty well designed. Actually i mostly like coil design and plastic quality they used...But overalll - poor very poor performances..."

Coil you mentioned was obviously patented (see Azizs previous DeepTech link) by Mustafa Uzman, the seller of MD Atlantis Imperator on eBay.

Regarding HQ pots on your photos not to cheap made MD such Imperator?

Certainly not cheap. I was confused regarding Imperator md!? There is trimmer on pcb. Havent analyzed its rolle there,havent enough time to do that. But since it was very unstabile on soil i tried to do something, turned that trimmer and try to see if it has some influence on GEB. No, i havent spoted any difference.Also GEB pot, it has such low influence on geb? I will repeat, md with that coil is very "deep" in air, testing it with coins and simillar items, but as coil lowered to ground,it starts to produce to much falses, it is not possible to distinguish between real targets and fakes. Shame.
Device was brand new at the time. Its owner just bought it and that was almost first real testing, no doubts about that md was possibly broken. Absolutelly not.

[WM6]

Atlantis Imperator

... I was confused regarding Imperator md!? There is trimmer on pcb. Havent analyzed its rolle there,havent enough time to do that. ...

Probably trimer was TR coil tunning trimer capacitor (C Nr.: 6 & 8 - see picture below) from M. Uzmans patent:



Interesting that Nexus, as described by now, use very similar (out of the common) working and tunnig principles (busted TR signal, resonating coils) as described in M. Uzmans Patent (see sample clipping from MU Pat below) and patently applied in Atlantis Imperator machine. Finally OO and DD coil are practically in working and tunning principles the same. So, can we make inferences that Atlantis Imperator and Nexus are more kin by blood than admitted?

[erolunall]

hi all
I saw to get 4.7 Bipolar capacitors 2x10 mf connection like below picture
regards
Erol

[WM6]

What you mean by "cold" coil?

It is interesting, to compare different coil types before making them. It will be also interesting, to compare omega with concentric coil. I will do this, when I have more time.

"cold" coil mean "free in air" - not to circuits/source connected coil.

Yes Aziz, excellent work, but there are many outer influences to coil that have to be computed (e.g. coil shielding) in reality. Only real input (connection to real coil and changing/tunning/loading it) can give you results near to reality in use. Limited theoretical inputs can give you only limited results somewhat far from reality, but very impressive to observe.

I think a great deal of you, but for practical needs, there is better to use sweep generator and scope or cheap digital USB scope ($100) with spectrum analyzer and connect real coils to it and play/tunning with and observe position and form of curve (f, amplitude, Q, damping etc) on display.

If you can make an interface between your application and real coil and capture real data, then you can get full practical value out of your application. Best wishes to your approach.

[WM6]

hi all
I saw to get 4.7 Bipolar capacitors 2x10 mf connection like below picture
regards
Erol

erolunall try this to get from two 10uF one bipolar appr. 4,7uF:

------+l]-----¤-----[l+------

serial not paralel connection

[ivconic]

Probably trimer was TR coil tunning trimer capacitor (C Nr.: 6 & 8 - see picture below) from M. Uzmans patent:



Interesting that Nexus, as described by now, use very similar (out of the common) working and tunnig principles (busted TR signal, resonating coils) as described in M. Uzmans Patent (see sample clipping from MU Pat below) and patently applied in Atlantis Imperator machine. Finally OO and DD coil are practically in working and tunning principles the same. So, can we make inferences that Atlantis Imperator and Nexus are more kin by blood than admitted?

Can't really say, havent seen Nexus yet. Looking forward to.

[WM6]

Can't really say, havent seen Nexus yet. Looking forward to.

Yes, as you say, and maybe Nexus will be Exus before to be seen.
Are you notice on Mr. Uzmans (Imperator) solution that only RX coil is shielded and central point of TX coil is grounded together with RX shielding (and one end of RX coil too)?

[ivconic]

Yes, as you say, and maybe Nexus will be Exus before to be seen.
Are you notice on Mr. Uzmans (Imperator) solution that only RX coil is shielded and central point of TX coil is grounded together with RX shielding (and one end of RX coil too)?

It is usuall to make central point at some coils, and wire it to gnd, due full symetry in TX signal.And it is also usuall to see that in old,obsolete designs where RX electronic (front end) lacks, due poor design or simillar.
Also omiting farady cage on TX could be the reason of its great instabillity.
I havent knew that, i never opened that coil!? Also i havent seen patent you are talking about. It evolved in a sort of prejudice in my mind; once i got disapointed in some detector, i never retreive my interests on it again.
My first (and last) "meeting" with Imperator was full with bad results so i never again been interested in it, at all.
About Nexus....for now i will take Quiaozhi's words as starting point to judge about it. In near future i expect to get Nexus on test, than we will see...

[ivconic]

Let's back to main subject here;
i am just making omega coil for TGSL. TX is 21cm and rx 10.5mm. Wire is 0.25mm. I wounded 98 windings for TX and 167 wind. for RX. I founded those numbers exact to suit needed inductances: 6mH (TX) and 6.5mH (TX).
Coil is not finished yet.Tomorrow i will apply f.cage (Al foil) and perform nulling. Later i will test it with TGSL to see performances....and of course report here...

[ivconic]

Oh yes....small contra circle at TX is 9cm...i forgot that!

[WM6]

[quote=ivconic;68668]Let's back to main subject here;i am just making omega coil for TGSL. TX is 21cm and rx 10.5mm. Wire is 0.25mm. I wounded 98 windings for TX and 167 wind. for RX. I founded those numbers exact to suit needed inductances: 6mH (TX) and 6.5mH (TX).Coil is not finished yet.Tomorrow i will apply f.cage (Al foil) and perform nulling. Later i will test it with TGSL to see performances....and of course report here...[ /quote]

Great to hear that, ivconic, you are man of action, not like we others only talking about. Hope that TGS & omega will form Terminator couple. I am curious (and for sure not the sole) in your report.

[ivconic]

[quote=WM6;68680]

Let's back to main subject here;i am just making omega coil for TGSL. TX is 21cm and rx 10.5mm. Wire is 0.25mm. I wounded 98 windings for TX and 167 wind. for RX. I founded those numbers exact to suit needed inductances: 6mH (TX) and 6.5mH (TX).Coil is not finished yet.Tomorrow i will apply f.cage (Al foil) and perform nulling. Later i will test it with TGSL to see performances....and of course report here...[ /quote]

Great to hear that, ivconic, you are man of action, not like we others only talking about. Hope that TGS & omega will form Terminator couple. I am curious (and for sure not the sole) in your report.

To tell you the truth; i am not expecting huge depth improvements with it. I rather expect narrowed pinpointing as well as more accurate discrimination.
There is another problem with handmade DD coils; no matter how hard i tried to make perfectly matched DD coil, there is always phase shift problem there.
Inperfection of windings theirself, some mechanical inperfections and drifts in dimensions, twisted wires etc.etc...all those causing cetrtain phase distortion.It is not only important to balance coils at desk,in workshop. Later on the field those coils are suffering due their mechanical inperfections and signal easily adopt more phase shift than it should be if coil was made more properly using some industrial methods, we amateurs can not afford, by the rule.
I have hopes that omega coil will be less sensitive to simillar inperfections and phase shift will be in expected (conditioned) ranges. For example if soil cause +3 degrees of phase shift (theoretically, using perfectly made coils) than on my handmade with all its drawback (mechanical) soil will cause +5 or even more shifting in phase, no matter i gained good measurements in my workshop on the desk. I noticed some "inpurities" on "perfectly" matched and balanced handamde coil, during prospecting on many different terrains. At the same time i compared my handmade with Minelab Sovereign (which is right now sort of reference machine for me). In workshop, at desk, connected to measuring instruments, both detectors are acting pretty simillar. TSL even showed better values, more depth, same nulling values as Sovereign's coil. But on the field, under real conditions, TGS had some "jumps" in behavior. Sometimes it performs much better than MS, sometimes mush worse. It has noticeable "oscilations" in behavior, while MS is very constant at most of terrains. OK, those 2 cant just be compared due pretty advantage technology involved in MS. But i didnt payed much of attention on machine itself, i payed more of my attention on coils behavior. MS coil doesnt showed so noticeable "oscilations" genarally, as TGS coil. Minelab's DD coil is perfectly optimized.
So as i said; i do grow some hopes that omega coil will suffer less from jitters than ordinary DD coil.
Speaking of this; might be that OO coil is also better to keep good performances, but also not so comfortable to work with in hard conditions...only on leveled terrains...
I will see...
Might be my hopes does not have real backrgorund!?

[Aziz]

Hi ivconic,

Due to asymmetry of omega coil, temperature change could cause heavy phase shift drifts on perfectly balanced coils. Keep in mind.

[Aziz]

I made an another balanced omega coil simulation. The green coil is the RX-coil on balanced (nulled) position. This shows, why omega coils are for pin-pointing convenient. The high magnetic strength is good covered on the flux area of the RX-coil. So the higher the magnetic strength, the higher the induction on target objects.
Aziz