TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Here is raining and I were planed to go prospecting.Very sad.
How are you?
In last posts you tell me that you have a lot of finds with TGS.But my question is what kind?Modern coins?or something interesting?
I just read some stuffs and I think its worth to try CC coil with TGS.
Did you have any expiriance with 3CC?
Now I am shore that the depth will increece.We have this nice DD 27 for mineralized ground calculated byu Ivconic so no need to change it.
But for normal soil its better/deeper/to use 3CC right?

[nelson]

Hi, now i have a scope on my shack, so please can anyone post a sketch about how to null DD coils.
I had search old forums, but i didn´t found anyting about.
Has i remerber i think i must connect RX coil to the scope and then get close the TX coil until i get the lowest mV reading. Is this correct or i should do anything else?
In advance many thanks, but last time i used an oscilloscope, was in 1981.
Regards
Nelson

[Max]

Hi, now i have a scope on my shack, so please can anyone post a sketch about how to null DD coils.
I had search old forums, but i didn´t found anyting about.
Has i remerber i think i must connect RX coil to the scope and then get close the TX coil until i get the lowest mV reading. Is this correct or i should do anything else?
In advance many thanks, but last time i used an oscilloscope, was in 1981.
Regards
Nelson

Hi,
put a suitable capacitor parallel on RX coil (like 15nF for TGS RX coil) and put a dumping resistor in parallel too (1K is ok)... then try null the best as you can lower down few mV peak peak on scope. That is about nulling.

Problem related to phase could require you choose different locations or shaping DD coils different to achieve that, but, generally the above procedure will work good.

If you cannot go down to few mVolts then you need at least 15mVpp for it to start working cool.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

find... and troubles...

Hi,
Max.
Here is raining and I were planed to go prospecting.Very sad.
How are you?
In last posts you tell me that you have a lot of finds with TGS.But my question is what kind?Modern coins?or something interesting?
I just read some stuffs and I think its worth to try CC coil with TGS.
Did you have any expiriance with 3CC?
Now I am shore that the depth will increece.We have this nice DD 27 for mineralized ground calculated byu Ivconic so no need to change it.
But for normal soil its better/deeper/to use 3CC right?

Hi,
I don't talk much of what I find... most of items are modern cause with cars for everyone (old good Ford!) the world changed a lot... people move... leave everything on soil or just miss coins, keychains, whatever etc... some things are from 1940-50 (war stuff and other kind) I found many bullets and military stuff other things are really ancient but sure much more rare to find today.
Found also small 1 gold nugget but was very lucky cause are very rare at my places.

I just make personal collection of them, do not sell even a piece, so for me is just hobby not business or something. Also I'm not the sunday THer that leave a place with 200 dug holes and not covered again... like many here at my place do everyday.

I found mainly copper, bronze and silver items with TGS and also some gold things but I will not show here cause some things are very localizing items and I don't wanna post about my location or similar informations.

The reason I do so is that there are very stupid persons around still in 2008 that really belive some stuff must stay ONLY in some museum... even if there are tons, millions (or billions ?) of same identical pieces in museums already... many of them are under a staircase of museums, I saw many times with my eyes what kind of smart people these are and the stuff they made... so better do not put this stuff here cause the world is full of S**T no need to add more and no reason to drown in that ocean to know it's just out there.

I posted one time a fragment of bronze nail... and similar stuff that you can make idea of what kind of stuff I can find in my good places.

The ridicolous fact is that everybody at my place knows what I'm saying here is the pure, crystallized truth... but nobody with the required power will ever change that positions or wrong ideas for truly effective and modern regulation even if laws are advanced now... there are always stupid people around ready to make some idiotic assumption! be aware of these!

I know of really good people having a lot of troubles with them... for just a bunch of CRAP of no value they had at home! Crazy!

And this is in the civil and advanced EU ! Pfff!

Everytime I read of these facts I can only laugh of what a comic strip are that EU regulations...

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

no

Hi Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

I don't have an original Tesoro coil.The first image shows my TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp,the second image is Max had post on Page 57,you 'll see the two image are almost same in phase shift.
mine:

Max:


Today i measure my homemade 23.5cm DD coil.
Wire is 0.25mm
TX: 5.88mH,23.58ohms,Q=1.57
With this coil frequency should be 14.5KHz
RX:6.35mH,24.45ohms,Q=1.64

ivconic
TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH


I think both Max and ivconic not got the max deepth,in TGS design,to get good ground balance,it'll lost some sense. At no GBE mode,you'll get more 8-10cm.
Max,do you test the 20 eur cent deepth in all metal mode?

[Max]

Hi Hi Qiaozhi and Max,

I don't have an original Tesoro coil.The first image shows my TX signal compared to the RX signal at the output of the preamp,the second image is Max had post on Page 57,you 'll see the two image are almost same in phase shift.
mine:
[ATTACH]4952[/ATTACH]
Max:
[ATTACH]4953[/ATTACH]

Today i measure my homemade 23.5cm DD coil.
Wire is 0.25mm
TX: 5.88mH,23.58ohms,Q=1.57
With this coil frequency should be 14.5KHz
RX:6.35mH,24.45ohms,Q=1.64

ivconic
TX - 100w = 21.2ohms = 5.61mH, when constrained it should read 5.99mH
With this coil frequency should be 14.6KHz +/-200Hz
For RX - 105w = 23.4ohms = 6.18mH, when constrained it should read 6.55mH


I think both Max and ivconic not got the max deepth,in TGS design,to get good ground balance,it'll lost some sense. At no GBE mode,you'll get more 8-10cm.
Max,do you test the 20 eur cent deepth in all metal mode?

Hi,
your measures are nice and I think is all correct, frequency, resistances are very similar and also phase shift.

Yes, with GEB untuned I get greater e.g. silver detection, but we know this. The problem is that when you have to use it on real soil you need GEB fully operational... otherwise is wasted time, lot of instability and false signals from untuned geb for that soil.

I test about always using DISC otherwise it's specified the all-metal mode. I'm interested just in DISC mode detection cause in many places there's too iron stuff to use all-metal and it's just a pain switch on disc at each beep to see if iron or not.

Do you mean the measures I made in older posts maybe ? I don't remmeber now ...too many posts here to remember everything.

Let me know what/where I wrote and I'll explain that...(hopefully).

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

Hi Max
Yes, it just what i mean,your measures post at here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...=12692&page=57

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Same with me.
I dont SELL!!
I dont leave holls!!!I have seen hugh and every time I am just asking my self why they do this!!!To find some rusty nails!
But every one have a view point of his own!
Thanks for shared experiance.
Was the gold clean when you digg it?Were it deep?What was the signal?
I have found many copper bronze.Never gold or silver.
Maybe I dont tune my geb right?!??!
And like you say its wais of time,and some times when its good I find some pieces?
We will check this.From now on I will aleys carry a piece of ferite rod with me on field!
Can you post pictures of your TGS unit?

[Max]

Hi Max
Yes, it just what i mean,your measures post at here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...=12692&page=57

Hi,
yes I remember these pictures I posted there but don't remember about coin example.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Same with me.
I dont SELL!!
I dont leave holls!!!I have seen hugh and every time I am just asking my self why they do this!!!To find some rusty nails!
But every one have a view point of his own!
Thanks for shared experiance.
Was the gold clean when you digg it?Were it deep?What was the signal?
I have found many copper bronze.Never gold or silver.
Maybe I dont tune my geb right?!??!
And like you say its wais of time,and some times when its good I find some pieces?
We will check this.From now on I will aleys carry a piece of ferite rod with me on field!
Can you post pictures of your TGS unit?

Hi tiktak,
I found a nice gold item 2 months ago with TGS in just 45minutes searching... but was luck I think cause are very rare, found also many bronze nails and other similar stuff in same place many times with TGS, and it's very sensitive to copper in soil.

Depth on this small gold target was around 13 maybe 14-15cm cannot evaluate right, not much in any case. But I found also at 22-23cm with TGS. Small stuff but consistent. When you dig that it shines in the sun... the kind of shine you don't belive the first time!

Used also in dry beach sand and found very (but very) small gold ring (I use in my air tests now) also there between a huge amount of the usual trash you find in beaches and many rusted coins! But if wet sand it's useless: no way, like other vlfs. I found the ring just near a beach-volley square... maybe some girl lost it there.

Tiktak, I think it's not a good idea posting picture in public area: I will post pictures of it to you by email, but not on forum, for the reasons of above is better avoid that, please give me your email address.

Same apply to other folks, I will send picture to anyone (trusted by me) will request but just by email, in a controlled way, and with non-disclosure agreement by them for this stuff on public area. I like privacy... you know!

I have ready pictures of it but must find (on some CD), otherwise I will made soon new and send.

Kind regards,
Max

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Max.
Thanks.
You can use [email protected] !
I will be very glad to see those.
And will post some back to you.

[Qiaozhi]

Hi Qiaozhi,
yes I think this is the right answer for his questions.

Let me ask you a thing that I don't have clear ...I think I read in the patents but now these informations are vanishing from my memory...

When we made disc on VLFs we compare phase on RX channels.

I mean we take quadrature samples on received signal after preamp, 90° apart one each other and so we have then e.g. 2 channels like in TGS each with its own amplitude. Then after the amplitude on these two channels are compared (Jack Gifford's patents talk about scale factor applied and then comparision made... but it's the same stuff I think) by e.g. analog stuff like op. amps and then result is applied to comparators inputs.

This actually is like extracting from RX signal the influence due to ground and ferromagnetic , and the influence of non-ferrous and compare by amplitude thus extracting a phase information related to target.

Now the question is: which relationship exist between TX signal and RX as whole, I mean... sure exist a phase relationship that rely on target composition and influence on coil... but the quadrature demodulator action is just for giving the two ferrous/non-ferrous distinct amplitudes ?

I other terms... if I wanna disc stuff cannot I just look at absolute phase between tx and rx signal (like you showed in picture, just coil phase in air there) or I need absolutely the 2 channels ???

The question is maybe a bit stupid... cause I understand that we need the two channels cause we wanna cancel out ground signal... but , in the case I wanna disc stuff just on air, isn't enough having just a look at phase between tx and rx signal ?

I made all these thoughts cause of the Ivconic's circuit about phase shift measure... that will be cool (if works good) to tune coils phase and also to disc stuff at least "on air"... to see if detector is working good or not.

Kind regards,
Max

Hi Max,

OK - I think I understand what you're asking.

Firstly, there needs to be a phase-shift (air measurement, no metal present) between the TX and RX as shown. If this is incorrect then the detector cannot find the correct ground balance point. The GEB channel should be sampling at the zero-crossing point of the RX signal where the signal is crossing from negative to positive. When metal comes close to the coil, the RX signal phase-shifts to the left, causing an increase in the amplitude for the GEB channel. If you only had the GEB channel, you would not have any discrimination. The DISC channel samples at the positive peak of the RX waveform. Non-ferrous targets cause an increase in the amplitude, and ferrous targets cause a decrease. In effect, the DISC channel inhibits the output of the GEB channel, when a ferrous target is close to the coil. By shifting the sample point in the DISC channel (with the discrimination control) you can also control the rejection of certain less conductive non-ferrous items, such as pulltabs and bottlecaps, for example.

[nelson]

Hi Max and yhanks fot your help, cause i forgot how to do nulling with a scope.
This weekend i ll try it.
My actual coil is working good, but not has good has you, Ivconic and others did.
Thanks and best regards
Nelson

Hi,
put a suitable capacitor parallel on RX coil (like 15nF for TGS RX coil) and put a dumping resistor in parallel too (1K is ok)... then try null the best as you can lower down few mV peak peak on scope. That is about nulling.

Problem related to phase could require you choose different locations or shaping DD coils different to achieve that, but, generally the above procedure will work good.

If you cannot go down to few mVolts then you need at least 15mVpp for it to start working cool.

Kind regards,
Max

[Max]

Hi,
Max.
Thanks.
You can use [email protected] !
I will be very glad to see those.
And will post some back to you.

Hi,
sent some pictures of the beast! Enjoy!

Kind regards,
Max

[zzy]

Hi Qiaozhi,
"The GEB channel should be sampling at the zero-crossing point of the RX signal where the signal is crossing from negative to positive."
It's seems reasonable,but in practice,it's not that.If you sampling at the zero-crossing point,you can't balance the ground.I find that the ground can also causes phase-shifts.