TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[eclipse]

Thank you Ivconic, i wanted to have 3 pots on the front
(i also like simplicity) and ... i have no space for more than 3.
So that makes disc, geb, sens on the front; and on the back - for the
delay. Thanks for the input again!

[ivconic]

It seems you didnt understand me?
GEB will be affected, meaning it should stay as trimmer on pcb.
Besides, adjusted once, no need to adjust it any more...

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

In the last couple of Day's , Maybe there has been a "Full Moon" outside. Because there have been 2 or 3 "Very Happy People" on this ForumSo I decided to make a WIN-ZIP "Gift Pack" which include's everything you need , to make Our Most Popular Project on the Forum right now , The Tesoro Golden Sabre Lite-1265. Included are a Nice Full Schematic , a PCB .LAY file , Case photo's , and a front and back .Lay files that are already opened for your instant inspection and the latest Audio Mod. , All in one Simple Zip Package of only 309 KB's. The gift that keeps on Giving !!! This Project is the Best on the Forum right Now !!!!!....I will E-Mail / Send this to People , who do not know yet , how good this Metal Detector really is !!!.............I think it's a Great Idea !!!!...............Eugene

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

The search coil data will be posted later , and probably combined into a new Zip Package. I did not include it because a "Final-Coil" has not been field Tested properly...............We will work on that later..........Eugene

[simonbaker]

In the last couple of Day's , Maybe there has been a "Full Moon" outside. Because there have been 2 or 3 "Very Happy People" on this ForumSo I decided to make a WIN-ZIP "Gift Pack" which include's everything you need , to make Our Most Popular Project on the Forum right now , The Tesoro Golden Sabre Lite-1265. Included are a Nice Full Schematic , a PCB .LAY file , Case photo's , and a front and back .Lay files that are already opened for your instant inspection and the latest Audio Mod. , All in one Simple Zip Package of only 309 KB's. The gift that keeps on Giving !!! This Project is the Best on the Forum right Now !!!!!....I will E-Mail / Send this to People , who do not know yet , how good this Metal Detector really is !!!.............I think it's a Great Idea !!!!...............Eugene

Thank you, this is great. Does it include Ivonic's latest addition for the audio? (hard to keep up with the changes). I answer myself -- I see a file called "mod.JPG" that looks like the Ivonic's audio mod.

I think we need to add a text file with some descriptions, such as Ivonic's notes on connecting the two PCBs, coil advice, cables, parts list, etc. Very helpful, though, to collect the latest info at regular periods because the thread is so long. I hope to build this, it takes time because first project.

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

Simonbaker , Hello . Yes , it does include the audio-update . I did not include the coil data in the zip file , but the coil used will be the standard 8 inch tesoro concentric , operating frquency at around 12 khz . I have a little chart I am making , which will show all the Tesoro coils made , plus a little technical information .And I will post the 8 inch coil information for the TGSL-1265 , in a "Final Zip File " . Sometimes I am in a hurry , And I forget stuff ...........Eugene

[eclipse]

..and because thread was so long I asked questions about the coil
construction w/o reading it first, so noobish. Tons of information here to read about.
Im building it, perhaps in 2-3 weeks I will have pictures of the process of making. I was asked by friend to make a md for him, so i picked this one. Ill make one device. Ill try it if it's good enough ill make him one too
Cheers

[simonbaker]

Simonbaker , Hello . Yes , it does include the audio-update . I did not include the coil data in the zip file , but the coil used will be the standard 8 inch tesoro concentric , operating frquency at around 12 khz . I have a little chart I am making , which will show all the Tesoro coils made , plus a little technical information .And I will post the 8 inch coil information for the TGSL-1265 , in a "Final Zip File " . Sometimes I am in a hurry , And I forget stuff ...........Eugene

It's all appreciated!

[simonbaker]

Another detail that is very important - exact dimensions of PCB boards to make sure we print them out correctly and pins fit in holes.

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

Simonbaker , Do you have Sprint Layout 5.0 ??? It would be very helpfull if you did !!! All the demensions you need are posted , either on this thread or from the .LAY file . I will try to find what you need and post what I can tommorrow , I hope ?? I have been "Re-Reading" this whole "Tesoro Golden Sabre" thread again , checking all the coils and coil-specs. that were posted. Yes , so far there are about 3 to 4 coils that were tested and called a "Final-coil-Design" ....But this is a Huge Thread with 98 pages and almost 2,500 posts and 1,200 pictures of Clint Eastwood ..This Golden Sabre thread was a "Work in Progress" for over a year and has a "Goldmine of information" ... I am not done searching yet , for a couple of questions I need to get answered , about Tesoro's 8 inch , concentric coil 'Resonance"...............Eugene

[Max]

Simonbaker , Do you have Sprint Layout 5.0 ??? It would be very helpfull if you did !!! All the demensions you need are posted , either on this thread or from the .LAY file . I will try to find what you need and post what I can tommorrow , I hope ?? I have been "Re-Reading" this whole "Tesoro Golden Sabre" thread again , checking all the coils and coil-specs. that were posted. Yes , so far there are about 3 to 4 coils that were tested and called a "Final-coil-Design" ....But this is a Huge Thread with 98 pages and almost 2,500 posts and 1,200 pictures of Clint Eastwood ..This Golden Sabre thread was a "Work in Progress" for over a year and has a "Goldmine of information" ... I am not done searching yet , for a couple of questions I need to get answered , about Tesoro's 8 inch , concentric coil 'Resonance"...............Eugene

Do you mean this picture of above ?

With the cigar ???

About the coil... it's not 12Khz... but 14.6-14.7Khz. The large coils from tesoro have, actually, lower frequency (more inductance) but this is a sideeffect I think... in 8'' coils you'll get 14.6-14.7Khz from TGS' colpitts with that capacitors.

And also, this is the range of frequency where the TGS seems be more stable and performance oriented... I suggest anyone here matching that frequency range before of other stuff... like e.g. changing the cap at RX...

Kind regards,
Max

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

MAX , Thanks again for your fast Response . I think you know what I am trying to say . Tesoro Makes about 5 to 6 different types of search coils search-coil's. And each will fit more than one Metal Detector Model !! The "Standard" 8 inch concentric , and I posted a tiny photo , fits ALL Bandido's , All the Sabre Model's and a few assorted other model's . It has factory set parameters of 1. DC resistance 2. Resonant frequency 3. Inductance in Millihenry's. What I do not understand is this one 8 inch "coil model" works good on the 10 khz Bandido and also works good on a Golden Sabre 12 khz or even a 15 khz Golden Sabre Plus !!! My question is 1. When you inject a vlf signal and it does not match the coils resonance 1. ARE YOU CREATING HARMONICS ???. 2. Are you causing PHASE DISTORTIONS ON THE RX SIDE OF THE COIL which will effect THE ACCURACY of the Discrimination circuit , or even cause more noise Problems. If Tesoro manufactures a special search coil for each of the metal detector model's they manufacture , Then all the above Questions are not important. Maybe when Tesoro uses one coil for "ALL MODELS" it is "TESORO BBS TECHNOLOGY" or "TESORO HARMONIC BBS"...So it seems like Tesoro's resonance on the coils is 14.6 to 14.7 khz and the factory will tell us that a detector model has an operating frequency of 12 khz.....I am still researching this subject...Also , there is a "Mars" , Pennsylvania !!!!............Opininions are welcome again.....Take Care............Eugene

[Max]

MAX , Thanks again for your fast Response . I think you know what I am trying to say . Tesoro Makes about 5 to 6 different types of search coils search-coil's. And each will fit more than one Metal Detector Model !! The "Standard" 8 inch concentric , and I posted a tiny photo , fits ALL Bandido's , All the Sabre Model's and a few assorted other model's . It has factory set parameters of 1. DC resistance 2. Resonant frequency 3. Inductance in Millihenry's. What I do not understand is this one 8 inch "coil model" works good on the 10 khz Bandido and also works good on a Golden Sabre 12 khz or even a 15 khz Golden Sabre Plus !!! My question is 1. When you inject a vlf signal and it does not match the coils resonance 1. ARE YOU CREATING HARMONICS ???. 2. Are you causing PHASE DISTORTIONS ON THE RX SIDE OF THE COIL which will effect THE ACCURACY of the Discrimination circuit , or even cause more noise Problems. If Tesoro manufactures a special search coil for each of the metal detector model's they manufacture , Then all the above Questions are not important. Maybe when Tesoro uses one coil for "ALL MODELS" it is "TESORO BBS TECHNOLOGY" or "TESORO HARMONIC BBS"...So it seems like Tesoro's resonance on the coils is 14.6 to 14.7 khz and the factory will tell us that a detector model has an operating frequency of 12 khz.....I am still researching this subject...Also , there is a "Mars" , Pennsylvania !!!!............Opininions are welcome again.....Take Care............Eugene

Hi,
well no... the Tesoro's coils have no tuned resonance peak at VLF range, they have self resonance as any coil has but , I mean, uMax coils have no tuning capacitor in a tank... inside housing... like other models have , other brand have (some White's models as example).

You actually don't inject the VLF signal in the coil, but the coil is part of the TX oscillator, a Colpitts one in Tesoro's with some variants from e.g. Bandido to TGS but really close in various models of that years.

When the coil is connected to the MD it become part of tuned circuit in the oscillator, and different caps in the "tank" make oscillator runs on a particular frequency. In Bandido you have 10Khz cause of that 2 caps , different from TGS, so ... if you replace the 2 caps in bandido you'll get same 14.7Khz of TGS with same coil.

The Tesoro's coils are nothing special, no harmonic design: they must suit tx and rx needs on fundamental frequency, that's it. To simplify , they must not follow even strictly a "particular" fundamental frequency, but nulling voltage and a required (no metal) tx/rx phase shift.

The results is that the same coil could run a different frequencies on different MDs of their uMax series... but with some combinations better than others: some type of MDs are more stable, though similar about circuits/schematic, also components selection is important in these differences.

The fact some coils allow lower frequencies is a sideeffect, happens with some larger ones expecially... that's cause of increased induction due to the larger area coverage and bad calibration of inductance at tuning procedure. That make me think their tuning procedure must be quite simple like using a multimeter or a scope for finding the required null, then check phase but paying less care on inductances and thus resulting in a lowered frequency on detector.

As you know, many successful TGS coils were made using out of spec inductance value and paying attention to dc series resistance and frequency...and phase: that means inductance is not primary key factor in successful coil cloning about TGS and other tesoro's if the end frequency is as expected...e.g. for TGS around 14.5Khz.

So why one have to match 14.6-14.7Khz with TX oscillator on TGS ?

The frequency range is important too when thinking at disc: some disc/geb features behave different at different frequencies... cause phase control networks are designed to work at nominal frequencies... this is the cause of not really decent performances reported, about disc, with larger tesoro coils....

That mean... you could gain in depth but lose about disc selectivity and , of course, pinpointing. (not to talk about ground influence... it's another topic also)

Kind regards,
Max

[simonbaker]

Simonbaker , Do you have Sprint Layout 5.0 ??? It would be very helpfull if you did !!! All the demensions you need are posted , either on this thread or from the .LAY file . I will try to find what you need and post what I can tommorrow , I hope ?? I have been "Re-Reading" this whole "Tesoro Golden Sabre" thread again , checking all the coils and coil-specs. that were posted. Yes , so far there are about 3 to 4 coils that were tested and called a "Final-coil-Design" ....But this is a Huge Thread with 98 pages and almost 2,500 posts and 1,200 pictures of Clint Eastwood ..This Golden Sabre thread was a "Work in Progress" for over a year and has a "Goldmine of information" ... I am not done searching yet , for a couple of questions I need to get answered , about Tesoro's 8 inch , concentric coil 'Resonance"...............Eugene

Yes I have the Sprint Layout and that should do the trick. But maybe someone can only use the GIF. Also it is good to know dimensions for doublechecking, it is so easy to make mistakes...

Max, very interesting discussion on Tesoro coils and design. Does anyone have an opinion on designs using coil in oscillator like Tesoro vs. driving resonant coil (like Aziz)?

[amtech2005]

TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

Hi Max , I read your response , Thank-You . Maybe at the Tesoro factory they just "Tightly wind 100 turns for the TX , measure the dc resistance and then "Tightly wind 110 turns for the RX , measure the dc resistance , Glue it , throw it on the truck , and someone "SCREAMS".... "SHIP-IT"......I know they have Factory Specifications , that are very strict +, - 1% maybe ???? Maybe not a Self-Resonance like you said , but definitely a milli-henry value that must be very strict. I am researching everything again on coils to learn all I can , and also to re-fresh my memory , because I plan to post the "Final Tesoro Golden Sabre Lite-1265". Search-Coil information Later !!!!........Eugene