TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Fred]

Simon,

Recieved the orginal beast today. Took a quick look inside and........

Is just what I had thought previously, pcb looks like almost perfect match for one posted by Kurtie100 on page 1!

Of course this was just quick peek, will do more thorough analysis soon.

Molzar

Hi Molzar
It will be very interesting to see pictures of the board.Hope you can also let us know about performances, to compare with the homemade one.
Regards,
Fred.

[tiktak]

Hi,

Hi,
Molzar.
Thanks.
It will be very interesting to see the exact components places and values.
Can you also make some air depth tests please?

[simonbaker]

Simon,

Recieved the orginal beast today. Took a quick look inside and........

Is just what I had thought previously, pcb looks like almost perfect match for one posted by Kurtie100 on page 1!

Of course this was just quick peek, will do more thorough analysis soon.

Molzar

Super! Hope you can get good pics of both sides of board (exactly straight-on shots, good focus hopefully).

Much appreciated!

-SB

[Unresistered]

Mistake!!!

Friday,

This not correct. Tx should be with 15 nF cap, Freq=14.6kHz

Inductance seems high but this depends alot on instrument used and method of measure.

Don't worry to much of inductance just follow recipe for good coils in this tread.

Molzar

Friday,

Sorry for stupid mistake. 15 nF is for Rx!!!!!!

Molzar

[Unregistered]

Hi,

Did some air tests with 8" coil.


Discrimination Mode (Full Sense)

US 25 cent = 20 cm (Silver)
US 5 Cent = 22cm

All Metal Mode may be 1-2 more cm

Unit becomes a little unstable set at 9 or above on Sense.

So no surprizes.

Took apart tonight to have closer look inside. Component values and locations seem to be as per Kurtie100 component layout. Haven't checked every component as yet but did check quite a few and they match perfectly. Solder side of pcb is work of art. Artwork was made by hand (like they did in the 80s) and is very curvy. ICs are Motorola and NatSemi. Sorry I can't post photo but no good camera here. Will post some shots next week. Might be tough to get good shot of component side because of all wiring.

Also things are not going well here personnally so hobby may take "back chair". But I try to post next week.

Molzar

[Friday]

no problem Molzar.thanks for your warning....
do you have TGS or TGSL?test seems good..

[Molzar]

Hi Friday,

I have TGS, not lite version. Here are pics..Enjoy

[simonbaker]

Thank you for pictures and tests! With some work it should be possible to make exact schematic of original, answer many questions.

Cheers,

-SB

[erolunall]

Dear Molzar

Thank You for good photos
if you sent info about parts (transistors and others) is same or not with shema will be helpfull for all.
İf you could sent this photo before this thread will be not soo much long


Best Regards
Erol Ünal

[erolunall]

Dear Molzar

Thank You for good photos
if you sent info about parts (transistors and others) is same or not with shema will be helpfull for all.
İf you could sent this photo before this thread will be not soo much long


Best Regards
Erol Ünal

[simonbaker]

Hi,

Did some air tests with 8" coil.


Discrimination Mode (Full Sense)

US 25 cent = 20 cm (Silver)
US 5 Cent = 22cm

All Metal Mode may be 1-2 more cm

Unit becomes a little unstable set at 9 or above on Sense.

So no surprizes.

Took apart tonight to have closer look inside. Component values and locations seem to be as per Kurtie100 component layout. Haven't checked every component as yet but did check quite a few and they match perfectly. Solder side of pcb is work of art. Artwork was made by hand (like they did in the 80s) and is very curvy. ICs are Motorola and NatSemi. Sorry I can't post photo but no good camera here. Will post some shots next week. Might be tough to get good shot of component side because of all wiring.

Also things are not going well here personnally so hobby may take "back chair". But I try to post next week.

Molzar

Those air tests are pretty close to air tests I get with my Tesoro Compadre with 5.75" coil. Interesting. People on this forum have really extended the power of TGS with coils and maybe small changes! I think very exciting to try to get perfect schematic of this actual TGS.

Biggest curiosity is audio circuit because of problems talked about here. However, maybe it's largely because of extra sensitivity achieved, pushing the limits????

Regards,

-SB

[Fred]

Hi Molzar,

Thanks for the great pictures.
Interesting!
Regards,
Fred

[Unregistered]

Hi,

Simon I think W. Lahr schematic is pretty accurate. Changes already noted (2-47Ks <4.7K>, 150pF<15pF>, and 100K resistor from LM 393 pin5 trace error) I only see two other differences:

1) 220uF cap on 8v line (right after regulator) So there is one before and after regulator!

2)The 1n4140 is missing on the one of the LM308s. This is interesting because it is on the (Lahr) schematic but is not on original PCB. So everyone thought this was just mistake on Kurtie100 pcb. This unit was produced after spring of 1986. Golden Sabre first came out in 1985. This is Rev C PCB, so if this was mistake they had plenty of time to fix it. I think also maybe makes no difference at all in performance.

Like I said before Kurtie100 component drawing (and PCB) is very accurate!

Parts are as per component drawing TIS75, 2222A, MPS13, LF442, etc.

Audio circuit (after LM35 is as per Schematic, 16 ohm speaker is LOUD!

Put Freq counter on Tx output tonite.....13.985 kHz with original 8" coil. Will try also with Tesoro 10.5 concentric coil I have but need to do some soldering to connect it.

One time I will do pains taking schematic check, maybe during long winter.

Next I will try 10.5 coil and DD coils, maybe few days.

Molzar

[simonbaker]

Hi,

Simon I think W. Lahr schematic is pretty accurate. Changes already noted (2-47Ks <4.7K>, 150pF<15pF>, and 100K resistor from LM 393 pin5 trace error) I only see two other differences:

1) 220uF cap on 8v line (right after regulator) So there is one before and after regulator!

2)The 1n4140 is missing on the one of the LM308s. This is interesting because it is on the (Lahr) schematic but is not on original PCB. So everyone thought this was just mistake on Kurtie100 pcb. This unit was produced after spring of 1986. Golden Sabre first came out in 1985. This is Rev C PCB, so if this was mistake they had plenty of time to fix it. I think also maybe makes no difference at all in performance.

Like I said before Kurtie100 component drawing (and PCB) is very accurate!

Parts are as per component drawing TIS75, 2222A, MPS13, LF442, etc.

Audio circuit (after LM35 is as per Schematic, 16 ohm speaker is LOUD!

Put Freq counter on Tx output tonite.....13.985 kHz with original 8" coil. Will try also with Tesoro 10.5 concentric coil I have but need to do some soldering to connect it.

One time I will do pains taking schematic check, maybe during long winter.

Next I will try 10.5 coil and DD coils, maybe few days.

Molzar

1) 220uF cap on 8v line (right after regulator) So there is one before and after regulator!
I searched thread for "lahr" but only found this message. I would like to identify exactly which schematic you mean (because there are several in this thread). Can you tell us which message of this thread it is attached to?

Ah!

Which LM308 is missing the diode? Does anyone have an idea why?

Some parts are not identifiable from your photos. Are they exactly as on the "Kurtie component drawing"?

Thank you for your excellent work, all your comments are of interest!

Regards,

-SB

[Molzar]

Here is schematic and component from early posts."W. Lahr" is not on this schematic, but I've looked at so many of these Tesoro schematics I think this is his work.
On component lay out only values I can see different are TL062 is LF442 and BF245 is TIS75 (like in schematic). Only one can not tell (yet) is Zener diode in Tx circuit. All the other values seem to be correct. The missing diode (4140) is on the bottom LM308 (on the schematic) I believe, the gnd bal circuit.

Will do more pains taking analysis of components, but no time right now, but Kurtie100 component layout and PCB from post #1 seem very accurate.

Also have to double check frequency for 8" coil as I think antenuation settings for counter may not have been correct.

Molzar