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Hi all,
I've found an old post in a forum at: http://66.51.97.78/coinist/ttipspage1.html
that talks about d-x and ed-x circuits for varios tesoro's detectors.
Seems that Inca, Eldorado and Toltec-100 used D-90 disc circuit that is compatible with the Gifford's early patent #US4486713...where 90° is the rule of disc.
So, "newer" models e.g. golden sabre or bandidoIIumax have the ed-120...extended discrimination 120°...
I think that this could explain why we get so much iron from bandidoIIumax and golden-sabre ...just cause extended disc makes iron rejection more weak!
A possible solution could be limiting the disc range of uMax models (bandidoIIumax , golden-sabre etc) to get something like one have in eldorado...without requiring to cut and paste for an hybrid device.
Anyone interested could take a look :
----
Why is the ED-180 better than the ED-120 disc.?
"R-n-R", The Toltec II and Golden Sabre II use the ED-120 discriminate circuit. The Bandido II MM, Silver Sabre MM, SHADOWx2, and basically most of the last generation of Tesoros (Pantera, Silver Sabre II, Sidewinder & Sidewinder MM, Bandido, Bandido II and Bandido MM, etc.) have employed the discriminate circuit referred to as the ED-120.
The Amigo II and a few other models utilize what is referred to as the ED-180.
In simple terms, the "120" or "180" descriptions are in reference to the degree of coverage of the discriminate range. Earlier models, such as the Inca, Eldorado, Toltec-100 and such had what could be described as "D-90", or an acceptance range of about 90 degrees. This allowed the detector to accept targets from silver dollars and such on down to lessor conductive targets in a low-foil category. Certainly the minimum rejection level was well above nail rejection.
Users of these earlier silent-search models were able to "comfortably" search many sites without hearing a lot of trash target signals. Unfortunately, in the very worst conditions, such as nail-strewn town sites or some renovation sites, there was too much rejection even at the minimum setting. Thus masking would occur more easily. Additionally, in the worst ground mineral conditions the discriminate circuit didn't work as well at dealing with the ground mineral signal and passing along the desirable target signals.
With the advent of the ED-120 discrimination circuit, Tesoro made a major advancement in functional discriminate range as the "Expanded Discriminate" (thus ED) range went **lower** in the acceptable range and this allowed models designed with that circuitry to just barely kick out most nails at the "minimum" setting and this gave them better "see through" (a bad term, but well used) in the really trashy sites, especially those with nails and other small iron junk.
The ED-120 circuitry is by far some of the best for the average hunter, and even the advanced detectorist, depending upon what their intended application is.
ED-180 simply refers to a discriminate circuit which has an Expanded range even LOWER than the ED-120, not higher. The LOWER range of adjustment gets the unit down into the ALL METAL acceptance range. Many of the competitors models allow such a low-end of adjustment, such as the White's XLT, 5900/6000's, Classic series, Garrett GTA's and Scorpions, and most certainly the Fisher "X" and CZ series.
For a serious relic hunter or a very serious detectorist who wants to have the added performance of an All Metal motion discriminate mode of operation, these are good units. For relic hunting and other searches where ALL targets are desired, then a broad-range, with a lower-end acceptance (ED-180) discriminate circuit is desirable.
However, most hobbyists are NOT interested in locating all metal targets in an area. Most are recreationalists, serious or casual, who are not that interested in having a primary search mode that will accept all metal targets, preferring to reject annoying nails and some other small, low-conductive targets. Thus, the ED-120 is the most used discriminate circuit concept that is employed by the Tesoro folks. It works well.
In some really bad ground the ED-180 will give you some much improved performance, but in "typical" ground and detecting situations the famous ED-120 should do.
Now, I hope this rambling wasn't too confusing. As for which is the "Better" of the two, I would have to say that I would be content with the ED-120 under most conditions. I do, however, employ the option of going to a lower range (ED-180) when I get into some very mineralized areas where there are NOT a lot of detectable targets and I prefer to get the best depth/performance. Confuse you? Questions? Just e-mail and I will try to clear it up! Posted By: Monte on the Old Tesoro Forum
----
Best regards,
Max
I've found an old post in a forum at: http://66.51.97.78/coinist/ttipspage1.html
that talks about d-x and ed-x circuits for varios tesoro's detectors.
Seems that Inca, Eldorado and Toltec-100 used D-90 disc circuit that is compatible with the Gifford's early patent #US4486713...where 90° is the rule of disc.
So, "newer" models e.g. golden sabre or bandidoIIumax have the ed-120...extended discrimination 120°...
I think that this could explain why we get so much iron from bandidoIIumax and golden-sabre ...just cause extended disc makes iron rejection more weak!
A possible solution could be limiting the disc range of uMax models (bandidoIIumax , golden-sabre etc) to get something like one have in eldorado...without requiring to cut and paste for an hybrid device.
Anyone interested could take a look :
----
Why is the ED-180 better than the ED-120 disc.?
"R-n-R", The Toltec II and Golden Sabre II use the ED-120 discriminate circuit. The Bandido II MM, Silver Sabre MM, SHADOWx2, and basically most of the last generation of Tesoros (Pantera, Silver Sabre II, Sidewinder & Sidewinder MM, Bandido, Bandido II and Bandido MM, etc.) have employed the discriminate circuit referred to as the ED-120.
The Amigo II and a few other models utilize what is referred to as the ED-180.
In simple terms, the "120" or "180" descriptions are in reference to the degree of coverage of the discriminate range. Earlier models, such as the Inca, Eldorado, Toltec-100 and such had what could be described as "D-90", or an acceptance range of about 90 degrees. This allowed the detector to accept targets from silver dollars and such on down to lessor conductive targets in a low-foil category. Certainly the minimum rejection level was well above nail rejection.
Users of these earlier silent-search models were able to "comfortably" search many sites without hearing a lot of trash target signals. Unfortunately, in the very worst conditions, such as nail-strewn town sites or some renovation sites, there was too much rejection even at the minimum setting. Thus masking would occur more easily. Additionally, in the worst ground mineral conditions the discriminate circuit didn't work as well at dealing with the ground mineral signal and passing along the desirable target signals.
With the advent of the ED-120 discrimination circuit, Tesoro made a major advancement in functional discriminate range as the "Expanded Discriminate" (thus ED) range went **lower** in the acceptable range and this allowed models designed with that circuitry to just barely kick out most nails at the "minimum" setting and this gave them better "see through" (a bad term, but well used) in the really trashy sites, especially those with nails and other small iron junk.
The ED-120 circuitry is by far some of the best for the average hunter, and even the advanced detectorist, depending upon what their intended application is.
ED-180 simply refers to a discriminate circuit which has an Expanded range even LOWER than the ED-120, not higher. The LOWER range of adjustment gets the unit down into the ALL METAL acceptance range. Many of the competitors models allow such a low-end of adjustment, such as the White's XLT, 5900/6000's, Classic series, Garrett GTA's and Scorpions, and most certainly the Fisher "X" and CZ series.
For a serious relic hunter or a very serious detectorist who wants to have the added performance of an All Metal motion discriminate mode of operation, these are good units. For relic hunting and other searches where ALL targets are desired, then a broad-range, with a lower-end acceptance (ED-180) discriminate circuit is desirable.
However, most hobbyists are NOT interested in locating all metal targets in an area. Most are recreationalists, serious or casual, who are not that interested in having a primary search mode that will accept all metal targets, preferring to reject annoying nails and some other small, low-conductive targets. Thus, the ED-120 is the most used discriminate circuit concept that is employed by the Tesoro folks. It works well.
In some really bad ground the ED-180 will give you some much improved performance, but in "typical" ground and detecting situations the famous ED-120 should do.
Now, I hope this rambling wasn't too confusing. As for which is the "Better" of the two, I would have to say that I would be content with the ED-120 under most conditions. I do, however, employ the option of going to a lower range (ED-180) when I get into some very mineralized areas where there are NOT a lot of detectable targets and I prefer to get the best depth/performance. Confuse you? Questions? Just e-mail and I will try to clear it up! Posted By: Monte on the Old Tesoro Forum
----
Best regards,
Max
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