AH Quintron or Phantom

[Reg]

Hi Carl,

Did you ever get the Quintron or Phantom to work? I am curious how well the ground balance works on these units. Since they are no longer being made, a schematic would be nice also.

If the ground balance and the discrimination works well, a similar design might be nice for a project.

Reg

[Carl-NC]

Haven't tried either one. Will try to do so soon.

- Carl

[Reg]

Hi Carl,

I stumbled into a A.H. Electronics Phantom and bought it. The price was a little high but it is said to be in good shape. The guy thought he had the manual also. If it comes with the unit, I will let you know in case you need a copy. I will probably scan it for simplicity.

Once I get the unit and time to try it, I will let you know what I think of it.

Reg

[1843]

Hi Reg,
This MD you say is PI or IB?
Best regrds

[Carl-NC]

Hi Reg,
This MD you say is PI or IB?
Best regrds

Most of the AH detectors were "off-resonance", which is a type of frequency shift similar to BFO. Not sure about the Phantom.

Reg, I would appreciate a copy of the manual.

- Carl

[Reg]

Hi 1843,

As Carl said, the Phantom is an off resonance type detector as far as I know. I suspect it is quite close in design to the A.H. Electronics' patent of a ground balancing off resonance detector.

Here is the link to the patent;

http://geotech.thunting.com/pages/me.../US4263553.pdf
]
The other A.H Electronics patents also indicate how the off resonance design works.

Normally, these detectors do not have that much depth but do have great discrimination capability.

I purchased the unit just to see how well it does work. If it works well, it might be a fun project to try to improve on it.

Reg

[Steve in MS]

Reg, let us know how it goes. When you say great discrimination, do you in terms of ferrous/non-ferrous or maybe better disc on non-ferrous items? I have thought for some time that a detector with a non-motion search that could still disc and have a way to deal with minerals would have promise over motion detectors, even if it had limited depth, sort of like the old TR's.

[Reg]

Hi Steve,

The A.H. Pro's don't have much depth, but from what I remember, they do a good job of discrimination over all. This is for ferrous and non ferrous objects.

Because of the design of the unit, they don't suffer the strange effects of not centering the target. On a VLF, being a little off center can cause the disc to change some. That doesn't happen on an off resonance type unit. At least, I don't remember it happening.

The problem with most models of A.H. is they are ground sensitive so they don't work well in heavily mineralized ground. Now, the Phantom and the Quintron were supposed to be ground balancing units that eliminated this problem, or at least reduced it significantly.

What I don't know is how well it works. That is what I hope to find out. I will post the results when I have had a little time to try it.

Reg

[Reg]

Hi All,

Well, I got the Phantom today and tried it for a while. First, it is out of adjustment and took some serious cranking on the different knobs to get it to work at all. I have some adjustments at the extremes just to get the proper signal.

Anyway, once I could set it up, I found the ground balance worked reasonably well. It certainly isn't perfect, but did a good job of dramatically reducing the ground signal effects.

With a fairly loud threshold, I found it also had decent depth capabilities, or at lest decent air tests. So, over all I am pleased with the unit. However, I can see where some mods might help. Also, setting it up was a real pain.

My guess is the unit could easily frustrate someone who had never used one before and wasn't familiar with the controls. I had worked with an oder AH design so I had some idea of what to expect. Even then, it took a while.

Carl, the instructions are simple 8 1/ by 11 sheets of paper. I will try to scan them and see how they come out using an OCR. Once I get them scanned, I will send a copy your way.

Reg

[Joe(TX)]

AH PRO NOT MUCH DEPTH ?????????????????????

I have a Pro-2, Pro and SuperPro and use these as my main detectors! Using the Pro-2, I get approximately 8 inches on a dime and an object that is larger like a quarter I can get 9 to 10 inches in depth, which is very decent. This depth is greater than some of the newer detectors such as the Ace 250 which is reported to only get 6 inches on a dime! The off-resonance feature makes the units squeal differently over different non-ferrous targets which to me is like a type of audio identification! I have found silver dimes and rings in worked out areas! Target pinpointing, target masking and target sizing is no problem. The Quintron and Phantom are non-motion ground balancing detectors so they should get better depth than the Pro-2. Of course, my ground is basicly neutral so what kind of depth one would get in a mineralized site is beyond me! I would be interested in anyone wanting to duplicate the coil, as I always wanted a larger one! Joe

[Reg]

Hi Joe,

Can you use a coil from one detector on one of the others? If so, then determining the inductance and building a coil shouldn't be that difficult. I suspect one of the coil's could be read with an inductance meter.

The indication on the patents is they operate at about 50 khz. If that is so, then we can figure out the inductance and capacitance involved. If the patents are close, then a 1 mh coil and a 10,000pf cap are what is indicated in the patent info. As it turns out, this seems to work well as the frequency where things peak.

Many years ago, I had the internal parts for one of the coils. It was a spiral coil made out of a double sided pc board. The top side was etched as the winding and the bottom side was etched as the shield.

Now, the simple way to make another coil is to simply wind one and try it. The problem is to find a connector that works. I don't know if all units use the same connector, but the one on the Quintron is somewhat unique.

Anybody know what connector they use and where someone could get a replacement?

Reg

[Reg]

Hi Joe,

I didn't respond to your depth indications and I should have so my earlier response would be more clear. First, the A.H. units appear to show a decent distance in an air test of targets, which should indicate somewhat the potential of the units in very low mineralized ground. My guess is the air tests come in close to the distance that you indicate you get in depth on coin targets.

Unfortunately, an air test and a buried target test are dramatically different when mineralized ground is concerned and that is about all we have here in Colorado. Some places are better than others, but most of the ground is fairly well mineralized. Where I live, the ground is extremely mineralized by any standard. It is extremely tough on VLF's and PI's, let alone a detector such as the off resonance type.

So, in my part of the country, the A.H. units didn't have much depth capability. One had to run basically silent because the unit would be beeping simply if the ground changed in the slightest.

That is why I wanted to see if the Phantom really would work where I live and provide both ground canceling and discrimination. Now, the ground does take its toll and one is still on the controls all the time trying to keep the threshold at a constant level and loud enough to hear the slight changes. That is where a decent autotune would really help.

Reg

[Reg]

Hi All,

Well, after receiving the Backpacker mentioned in a different thread and experimenting with it, I took the Phantom out again and worked with it again. The ground balance feature works quite well.

Now, this unit could really use the automatic tuning feature found on the Backpacker. If it would have had that feature, the unit might have been a great success, or at least, much more successful. Since the present design of Phantom seems to drift a lot, it is difficult to keep fine tuned for maximum depth. Also, the combination of switches, adjustments, etc, makes this detector much more intimidating. If it had autotuning, then one of the major problems would have been solved.

This is a design that is so close but so far away from being the ideal design. It has a lot of unique features, but a few limitations that hurt it in their present form. Fortunately, todays technology provides new ideas that can really help this detector.

I would love to find a schematic of this unit because with an autotune and some increased gain, this could really be a great unit in all types of ground. Does anyone out there have a schematic of this detector they are willing to share?

I would love to be able to spend more time on this detector and reverse engineer it, but I have a couple of key mods I really need to try on my PI's. They will take a lot of time by themselves.

I will say that playing with this detector and the Backpacker has been an enjoyable break from working with my PI. Also, because of the totally different concept, new ideas have cropped up for my Hammerhead unit. Taking a break like this has proven quite beneficial.

Reg

[Reg]

Phantom schematic

Hi Guys,

Tried the old Phantom again and did a little adjusting. It works a little better but I could still use a schematic if anyone has one. So, if someone has a schematic let me know if you are willing to share.

Thanks,

Reg

[Joe(TX)]

AH PRO

.....REG....Allen Hammetta has a website ......it is Not under AH Pro...he has the schematics plus he does repair work on all of his detectors at a very reasonable price.....give me a little time since this is Christmas week....I will try to locate the web address.......Oh yea....I just located a Super Pro V....hopefully i get it this week.....Joe