tv show "cash and treasures " meteorite detector

[Lost in NC]

anyone know what machine that meteorite guy was pullling behin dhis 4 wheeler? is it p.i.? magnatometer? anyone build something like that before? think its easy?

ASP

[Max]

anyone know what machine that meteorite guy was pullling behin dhis 4 wheeler? is it p.i.? magnatometer? anyone build something like that before? think its easy?

ASP

Hi Lost,
which TV channel ? where tv channel is broadcasted ? what's channel' name ? who is the guy ?

and most important what's THE THING shape...???

Could be I saw that report too...maybe I have on DVD

I saw one time a big-nugget finder used to locate stuff in a US desert (maybe arizona ?). The owner-inventor used a PI detector coil suspended by a 2 meters pole in front of his jeep.
Finally, after some years, he found one rare 6.5Kg native nugget man! (but a number of other trash too of course) I saw on a tv series from USA.

Amazing nugget!

See also on same series another man (a NASA engineer I think) founding meteorites in south california...using common detectors. Actually he found a piece of MARS (one of the few real MARS' rocks here, nasa certified) but he leaved that rock outside home for say 20years before discovering it was a real meteorite and not just like many thousands junk-rocks there, just before dropping all the stuff outside home to recover some space...

Best regards,
Max

[Lost in NC]

thanks Max

hey Max thanks for the reply.

the tv show is called " THE BEST PLACES TO FIND AMERICAS CASH AND TREASURE" it airs on the Travel Channel (off shoot of dicsovery channel) has a pretty hot 40 something hostess that goes around to various places digging "treasure" . loosley defined of course. they dig anything from minerals to civil war relics and even a show dedicated to truffles... yes truffles.

this one episode showed the guys who found the million dollar Kansas meteorite. he had a 4 wheeler and a pretty big square search coil with wheels (looked like lawn mower wheels) he used head phones. i can only assume this was a mag. type detector would make the most logical sense. he was going for deep, big meterorites. just a curiosity. i would like to find a p.i. machine that could be rigged similar. gold bars arent magnetic heh heh.


but anyway, i have heard mixxed things about such machines as the lorenze i mean how deep can a p.i. really go? im not a electronics wiz like 99% of the other guys on this board so i am in the dark about the techological end of "reality" in machine frequency vs. depth. any input would be welcome.

one guy i know swears by the lorenze but he has never found anything. the old timer buddy of mine made a tidy living digging caches and he used the old blunderbuss detectors and loads of research.

ASP

[J_Player]

Pulse Star II finds the iron...

Hi Mr. Lost,

The person you saw on TV was Steve Arnold, meteorite hunter. He used a Pulse Star II. The Pulse Star II's 3-foot coil was not big enough for him, so hi bought the biggest coil he could find (9 feet x 4 feet) and connected it to his Pulse Star II. He made the pvc pipe/wheels/wire contraption to hold this coil rigid while towing it behind his ATV. You can read about it at this link: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/1...eor&topic_set=

He also uses GPR to locate meteorites, and is testing advanced versions for NASA to launch in their probes to sample on the surface of other planets.

Here are some more links about Arnold's meteor hunting:

http://www.exn.ca/video/?video=exn20051115-meteor.asx
http://www.brenhammeteoritecompany.com/history.htm
http://www.hutchnews.com/news/region...wa101406.shtml
http://www.meteorite-times.com/Back_...ite_People.htm


If he only changed the coil on his Pulse Star II, there is probably a lot more room for improvement that could be done by some of the accomplished detector scientists in this forum.

J_Player

[Max]

Hi,
thanks for useful informations about the topic.

I guessed the guy was using a PI with twin coils in gradiometer config, like in the Corbyn's project, before JPlayer's description of the PSII + big monocoil arrangment. I think that in meteorite search gradiometer config would avoid much problems and could give more depth information expecially for big iron-meteorites. Anyway, finding meteorites is relatively easy e.g. in deserts (I know that are many expeditions every year in south sahara) but a bit more difficault in other places where iron contamination is too hi.

For gold the problem is always the same, is not magnetic...so magnetometers are almost unusable and also PIs are not so useful cause they reveal anything conductive...pipes, cans etc without any good (and reliable) disc.

I think that one could replicate PSII + coil stuff with just a DeltaPulse and a good homemade coil (without shield, not required) and a kind of trolley vehicle made of plastic, wood and anything not magnetic, carried by a main vehicle.

Some informations about depth.
About PI depth, well PSII is rated for big depth, with e.g. a 2x2 meters square coil it can detect an object 25x25 cm (10''x10'') at about 2.20 meters underground. With a 1mx1m object (like a big WWII plane bomb and the like) at more than 4.5 meters. I think a DeltaPulse could even beat PSII on depth but have no disc ! Anyway, as I said disc is never reliable on Pi machines.
Other suitable circuits that could reach or beat PSII performances are XR-71 and a mod GoldScanIV.

Best regards,
Max

[J_Player]

Maybe a magnetometer would work better?

Hi Max and Mr. Lost,

Meteorite hunting is interesting. It is one kind of treasure where a PI detector excels because the discrimination is not necessary. Since most meteorites contain a large amount of iron-nickel alloy, we are actually looking for a ferrous target. The conductivity will vary depending on the alloy constituents, but it is still basically ferrous, and magnetic. If you are serious about finding meteorites, then any PI detector should work ok, and the best would be a PI that detects as deep as possible. The most valuable meteorites have high metal content and are preferably large, which means you want to find a target that has a signature of a very large lump of iron. It is easy for an experienced PI detectorist to recognize the difference between small objects near the surface and very large targets. I would suspect that if the Delta Pulse has better depth than the PSII, it may be a good machine to rig with a large coil for meteorite hunting.

Steve Arnold says he digs a lot of trash like horse shoes, old shovels, and plows. But the meteorites he finds make it all worthwhile. I would dig any target that has a signature of a large metal object, ferrous or not, just to see what it is. Who knows... maybe you found a gold statue instead of a meteorite.

The idea of using a magnetometer to locate meteorites sounds good to me. I would expect even the less expensive magnetometers to have a sensing range similar to the PSII. With the new Honeywell magnetic sensors, a magnetometer/gradiometer could be built for well under $100 US, and maybe it would work better than the best PI detectors for finding large deep meteorites. These Honeywell sensors can be substituted for the sensors shown in Carl's magnetometer project (see magnetometer forum for details at this link: http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=12728 ).

What fascinates me about meteorites is the beauty of the pallasite samples that Arnold has found. These are among some of the finest mineral samples to be used in art projects and jewelry. Click here to see what I mean... http://images.google.com/images?um=1...en&q=pallasite

No wonder they sell it by the gram.

[Lost in NC]

J Player and max thanks.


i am interested in meteroites but mainly there is a cetian stash of gold bars that intersts me at this point. hight desert with highly mineralized soil. wreacks havock on my two boxxes. lots of falsing even the GTI 2500 is uselsss here it is nearly imposible to canel out volcanic rock of the area. so i am interested in something to modify to my 4wheeler (cant fit my jeep where i need to go) now there may be meterorites in this wash who knows i wont turn down a nice meteorite either.

i have yet to find a meteorite i have found lots of hot rocks that got my juices flowing when i first started out. even unearthed a nice piece of manganese from a colonial site. talk about excited! had robert haag study some pics of it he said it was manganese.

ok here is a question

could a Minelab bbs machine be modified to accept a large coil such as a 3x3 or larger?

like i said i am no electrowiz. but to my reckoning doesnt a larger coil require a little more juice to run? what i mean s is there a point at which the machine can only prcess so much imformation and a large coil would confuse it and loose depth? i always try to think big hahahah thanks

ASP

[J_Player]

Coils

Hi Mr. Lost,

From what I heard, the Minelab coils are not that easy to swap out because of their special proprietary coil design. It seems to me that your best bet is to get a new detector that is specialized for finding deep non-ferrous targets, and can penetrate hot ground. I would think the Delta Pulse or the Pulse Star II would be candidates, but I am not sure if they can handle the hot ground. I have also heard there are some new PI detectors being developed that have true discrimination better than the VLF detectors, and will ignore hot rocks and iron clays. You may want to look into the Pulse Devil, which has been tested in Europe and USA, and will soon be tested in Australia, the hottest ground on earth for nugget hunting. So far, this detector has found gold nuggets next to steel nails and washers while rejecting the iron items as well as hot rocks. This may be a detector that can locate your cache of gold bars. It will be offered with a large assortment of optional coils. For your application, you may want to contact Dave Emery to see if it is adequate and if it will be able to use a large coil.

Large coils can work with the same power as the smaller coils use. What happens is the large coil will find the large targets more easily and deeper, but will lose much of the smaller targets that a smaller coil can find. While it is not necessary to have more power to run a larger coil, more power can improve the depth if it is properly applied.

J_Player

[Lost in NC]

Ok thanks again. its been an interesting read. i have been reading up on the PSII and will do some research on the other machines as well.

some people have talent in the electronic end of this business. i am one of those who never had a knack for understanding circuts and stuff. i can barely turn my computer on. i guess i kinda figured that running a bigger search coil was like hooking up 200 watt speakers to a 30 watt stereo. doesnt do much for the sound. so the detector doesn't neccesarily need to be tuned to a larger coil? thats good to know. sorry for being ignorant on the subject. been using a detector for a long time but the inner workings beyond the rudiments have remained a mystery. always willing to lean though.

maybe i will lurk in the p.i. forum and observe.


thanks

ASP

[Max]

Hi,
about meteorites yes would be nice to find one or some. I know that in normal conditions is not so easy, e.g. not in desert and expecially with PI machines.
JPlayer yes there are iron-alloy meteorites that are easy to find in desert conditions with a PI detector. They are strongly magnetic and look like a big piece of iron. I've actually found something like the manganese stuff described in the other post, they sometimes are called nodules and are black outside like carbon and black with gray veins inside , when you break them with an hammer. I've found also many other crystals composed of iron-silver-palladium and the like. Never found any gold nugget that way.

Interest for meteorites would be, science apart, economic too. I know that there are some that are estimated at values as hi as 500eur per gr. So 1Kg of these is about 500.000 eur ! And 1Kg is not so difficault to find with right searching methods and tools. Problem is that just few meteorites reach that prices and many have just quotations on collectors bids etc.
Another issue is that many of the most economically valuable are composed of carbonium compounds and not so easy to find, cause no MD would detect them.

A simple method to realize if a magnetic rock is a meteorite (or fragment) apart external aspect that could vary is investigating crystal structure.
Just cut a piece e.g. 2x2inches then polish very carefully and make on it a perfect polished face. Then immerse the piece in a solution of 75% chloridric acide+25% nitric acid. After less than 5 minutes you'll find a special pattern if it's a meteorite. It's called "Widmanstatten pattern" and is typical of ferrites that reach the ground passing trhough the earth atmosphere, then melt and recollapse.

I think that many stuff could be used to find them including simple fluxgate mags. If I have to search for iron-alloy meteorites probably I'll choose a proton prec mag mounted on a vehicle or carried by it.

About, Minelab mod for big coils I think couldn't be done cause all that stuff from minelab (though extremely good quality) is tailored for their coils...coiltek etc that have strict parameters and doesn't allow you to mod too much without stop them working.

A good solution could be:
DeltaPulse (or XR-71 that's pretty close), or even better the GoldscanIV cause it was designed to work in australian gold-fields, the worste case scenario for a PI detector ! A modified GS4 could mount a very large coil and internal ground balancing circuit could compensate for effects due to fine iron minerals inside the matrix. Of course no PI could deal easy with hot-rocks...maybe PulseDevil could, but is still unreleased, I can't say.
I've noted that GS4 is totally unuseful if many hot-rocks are present or also bricks, pottery and the like, it just correct response for fine minerals contamination not for "hot-spots" like a vlf would do.
PSII is for sure one of the most interesting PI for depth, like lorentz too, but I think DP could beat it in all but the rough disc that DP haven't.

There are many folks here that use DP (and me too sometimes) with lot of satisfaction though it has no disc!

The beauty of DP (XR-71, GS4 too) is that you could made the coil you need and experiment as you want and don't having too much pain trying to get them work. Just keep in mind that larger coils get much higher gnd signal so if you use large one you need to suspend at higher height from ground, but is easy and effectiveand you lose just few inches of depth compensated by increased sensitivity to larger objects.

Best regards,
Max

[Reg]

Hi Lost,

I have hunted meteorites a few times and found a few using a PI and a VLF. All of those I have found are of the stony variety.

Now, most meteorites found are what are called the stony types. These do not fit the pattern Max described. Iron meteorites will fit the physical pattern described, but Pallasites and stony varieties will not.

Most meteorites are attracted to a strong magnet. Iron types and Pallasites will have a much stronger pull since they consist or have a much higher concentration of iron. The stony variety of meteorites can vary between a very strong to a not so strong of an attraction even to a super magnet. These types of meteorites do not look or even feel much like the other types in many cases. Sometimes it is almost impossible to tell a meteorite just by looking at the surface. This is the reason most experts require a sample to be sure.

Stony meteorites are by far the most common, so, logically, they will be the most likely to be found. I think I read that somewhere between 90 to 95 % of meteorites found are the stony types. Over 95% of meteorites that have fallen can be detected with a metal detector if the meteorite is large enough. There are a few that can't be detected because they do not contain enough iron or other metals to be detected. Fortunately, this percentage is quite low.

Here is a link that provides a little more information about the percentages of the different types of meteorites typically found.

http://www.solarviews.com/eng/meteor.htm

Now, getting back to metal detectors and the detection of meteorites. As I sad before, all types of metal detectors will generally do a decent job of detecting most of the meteorites. Some will have a more difficult time with some of the stony types, though.

Now, as for PI's, I have used different models of Eric Foster's and had success with them in finding stony meteorites. The Goldscan 4 is obsolete and really does need some updates, but will work fine without them. It will be a little more difficult to keep in adjustment among other things. Eric's Goldquest and Goldscan 5 will work also.

You can use Carl's Hammerhead PI for meteorites also. So, if you are inclined to try to build one, here is a good one to build.

Now, the nice thing about Eric Foster's detectors and/or the Hammerhead is they will usually work with about any size coil you want to build. You may have to reduce the delay some to get them to function properly, but they should work. So, one can make this a do-it-yourself project if you like.

It does help to have a form of ground balance on a PI if you plan on finding the stony types, but it isn't necessary. A lot depends upon the ground conditions and how fast or slow you move the coil. Ground balance does help in highly mineralized ground or places where Basalt is quite common. Unfortunately, some of the Basalt may respond much like some of the stony types, so problems can occur there.

I hope this helps you a little.

Reg

[Lost in NC]

hey Reg thanks for the reply,

i am looking fo r a machine that will perform on non ferrous as well i.e. gold silver bars as well as meterorites i am going to be huntgn in a moutian wash in some pretty mineralized part the world. lots of volcanic cinders i have a sample from my last trip and they make VLF detectors sing the blues. lookinf for somehting to be towed behind a 4 wheeler to save all that walking, and to get back to camp before dark.