Are we outlaws or....?

[ivconic]

In Serbia there is no law with proper definitions about prospecting yet. Some country? I just saw very "black" and sad reportage on some local TV station about serbian prospectors....Those claim us as outlaws,grave diggers,smugglers....etc.
I know that i am not neither one of those.Still i am real enthusiast in prospecting.Great joy for me. Also very relaxing for body and mind after everydays problems....I am not visitinig any of protected locations...just wandering across mountains,forests...sucking fresh air, relaxing and enjoying in prospecting. I do know for sure that this kind of hobby is very preciselly regulated by state law in USA,Germany,GB,France,Itally...and many more countries....here is NOT!

Can anybody explain me a bit detailed law regulations about clubs,prospectors and eventual finds during prospecting. What should be our obligations ...etc...
I am sorry cose post this here...but there is no Thread or Forum for this subject...which plays very imortant rule in our hobby....isnt it?
All of the sudden i "became" otlaw according to nonsences they talked on that TV reportage!?
Ilegal trade, state wast...criminals...sentences...blah,blah....
While waiting our goverment to establish some law about this i would like to know how it is in your countries....

C'mon friends....help me and explain me a bit your situation...are you "outlaws" too in your countries?


P.S.
It is shame, in my country, some politicians and tycons (same) steal and robber legaly, millions and billions of euros...and nothing! At the end i became
"black ship" cose enjoy walking the nature,holding detector in my hand and escaping from everyday reallity....

[ivconic]

more...

Just one note more:

Reportage was emitted on B92 TV....same tv which applauded all 78 days of NATO air raids over Serbia....TV was directly financed by George Soros at the time...(CIA operatives)
At the hardest moment for Belgrade(capital), under constant (around the clock) NATO bombs, same TV presented "TOP GUN" movie.....in top evening termine ...? What irony!?

O.K. Aside politics....I am only interested on law regulations in your country about this,our hobby...! Nothing else...

Sorry for me acting wise here....wont do again...Very best regards!

[Qiaozhi]

In Serbia there is no law with proper definitions about prospecting yet. Some country? I just saw very "black" and sad reportage on some local TV station about serbian prospectors....Those claim us as outlaws,grave diggers,smugglers....etc.
I know that i am not neither one of those.Still i am real enthusiast in prospecting.Great joy for me. Also very relaxing for body and mind after everydays problems....I am not visitinig any of protected locations...just wandering across mountains,forests...sucking fresh air, relaxing and enjoying in prospecting. I do know for sure that this kind of hobby is very preciselly regulated by state law in USA,Germany,GB,France,Itally...and many more countries....here is NOT!

Can anybody explain me a bit detailed law regulations about clubs,prospectors and eventual finds during prospecting. What should be our obligations ...etc...
I am sorry cose post this here...but there is no Thread or Forum for this subject...which plays very imortant rule in our hobby....isnt it?
All of the sudden i "became" otlaw according to nonsences they talked on that TV reportage!?
Ilegal trade, state wast...criminals...sentences...blah,blah....
While waiting our goverment to establish some law about this i would like to know how it is in your countries....

C'mon friends....help me and explain me a bit your situation...are you "outlaws" too in your countries?


P.S.
It is shame, in my country, some politicians and tycons (same) steal and robber legaly, millions and billions of euros...and nothing! At the end i became
"black ship" cose enjoy walking the nature,holding detector in my hand and escaping from everyday reallity....

In the UK there are many rules. We also have bad people called "night hawks" who don't care about the rules and give metal detecting a bad name.

Have a look at these sites:
The Treasure Act (1996) - http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/1996024.htm
National Council For Metal Detecting - http://www.ncmd.co.uk/
Federation of Independent Detectorists - http://fid.newbury.net/

Also, read this about night hawks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/...treasure.shtml

[Max]

In the UK there are many rules. We also have bad people called "night hawks" who don't care about the rules and give metal detecting a bad name.

Have a look at these sites:
The Treasure Act (1996) - http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1996/1996024.htm
National Council For Metal Detecting - http://www.ncmd.co.uk/
Federation of Independent Detectorists - http://fid.newbury.net/

Also, read this about night hawks: http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/...treasure.shtml

Hi,
my thoughts about this topic is that U.K. has the best regulation/legislation of the whole EU about this topic. I like very much the "The Treasure Act (1996)" philosophy and it make me thinking there are good lawyers in U.K., there are real rights for people that wan't just make some walking... detecting as hobby and don't want to break any law.

Last discoveries made in U.K. in last years have demonstrated that the general ideas that are in the Treasure Act are right , for the state, for the landlord and for the detectorist...

Principle... in brief, are like this (please correct me if I'm wrong):
- if you find something historical, archeological value you must contact local authorities
- an independant commission of experts evaluate discovery and economic/commercial value of objects found
- one museum of all U.K. could buy at that price object(s) or if no museum is interested in that stuff, things are then give back to who found them that then could sell e.g. using bids-houses ...
- if museum buy then at specified (commercial) price of above then people that have found stuff (and eventually the landlord if another person too) got the money

I know that many valuable discoveries (objects also exposed at British Museum and other places in U.K.) were known that way... by loyal detector entusiasts and that authorities are grateful with all them. Detectorists signaled many places where then "real" archeo surveys were/are made with lot of success!

Very easy, very effective, good for all parties involved.

In other countries in EU you would find different "protection laws" , that, at the end, have a completely different effect respect what they want to achive... so increasing illegal activities.

At the end, I think that U.K. has the right model BUT (as with many other things...) other countries aren't ready for this change in views about metal detecting hobby and founds. That's why also many of these countries have limited market for MD and also no or less MD manifactures... and everything "good" machine must be imported from US, UK, Australia etc

There are a lot of EU directives that try to move things going to the U.K. principles... but some, expecially southern EU countries, are completely closed to any improvement in their internal legislation due to cultural gaps.

TOO OLD VIEWS = TOO MANY LIMITATIONS = TOO MANY OUTLAWS

Best regards,
Max

[ivconic]

TOO OLD VIEWS = TOO MANY LIMITATIONS = TOO MANY OUTLAWS

TOO OLD VIEWS = TOO MANY LIMITATIONS = TOO MANY OUTLAWS

Yes i agree. I will take some time and read those you send me. Thanks!
I saw many sites in USA promoting prospectors clubs and all included...
I think yhere must be very precise defined law about it in USA?
Any knowledge?

Thanks Quiaozhi,Max..!
Regards!

This is very imoprtant subject we have to talk about more...

[Sean_Goddard]

Didn't know you were in the UK Qiaozhi .

Yup we have some very good laws relating to metal detecting (I don't like the term treasure hunting, I think it makes us look like a bunch of money grabbing louts..OOPs that'll be the dealers then ). All that aside, it's basically, it's OK, but use common sense and steer clear of ANY historic protected sites (obvious really).

Personally, I think ANYONE who desecretes a grave, archaeologists included is a criminal , so burial sites I steer WELL clear of. I show the dead the respect they deserve., And yes, I LIKE smilies =-)

[J_Player]

USA has no federal metal detecting laws

Hi Ivconic,

I don't know all the metal detector laws for the USA where I live. But you may begin to understand after reading below.

There are many US laws that regulate treasure and relic hunting. While there are no federal laws about metal detecting, the use of a metal detector can cost you a fine or imprisonment if you are in the wrong place. So in some places it is illegal to carry a metal detector even if you have broken no laws, because it is presumed that you are carrying the detector to look for treasures. But a bigger problem is we have a large country with many states that have different local regulations. So it is necessary to check with local officials wherever you want to use a metal detector.

To get an idea how difficult it is to understand the metal detector laws in the USA, let's start with the federal rules. The federal government rules apply to all federal government property:

The first rule is we cannot relic hunt on any federal government owned land (a relic is any man-made object more than 50 years old). There are also various rules for different areas:

In areas that are registered as a national historic site - there is no treasure hunting (metal detecting) allowed even if the site is privately owned, -- federal fines and imprisonment apply for violators. This rule supercedes any rules that may make it ok to use a metal detector.

National parks and national monuments - metal detectors not allowed. Not even locked in the trunk of your car.

National forests - metal detecting is ok for items less than 50 years old. If you are recovering gold, then you need to file a claim. (some people report that they are not allowed to use their metal detectors in the national forests).

Military reservations - Metal detecting only with permission with the base commander (not likely).

Indian reservations - These are governed as a separate country of the Indians. Don't even consider metal detecting without permission from the tribal leaders on an Indian reservation.

There are many agencies of the federal government that have their own rules like the BLM and Corps of engineers. Most of these are more lenient toward metal detectors. There are also a number of relic and archaeological laws concerning finding treasures that apply regardless of whether the government owns the land.

Now, After we learn all the applicable federal laws, then we need to check the state laws as well as the local county and city laws. For example, In the California desert, it is illegal to use a metal detector inside the Anza Borrego State Park area. You will receive a fine if you have a detector outside the locked trunk of your car. This is where a lot of people would like to find the lost pegleg treasure, and I suppose the park rangers don't want to see a lot of craters every place somebody thinks there is treasure.

So it is no easy job to understand where it is ok to use a metal detector in the USA unless you check with all the authorities in your area to make sure it is ok to use a metal detector there. We also find that the authorities don't always know what the rules are. Often they don't let you use a metal detector when it is ok because they don't know the law, or they want to enforce their own "higher standard" of how the park will be run.

It seems the intent of the laws is to protect the national antiquities and help preserve the parks. But the rules change so much from one location to another that is sometimes doesn't make much sense. Some people think it is much easier to get permission to take their detectors on private property than on government lands.

I would like to see a more unified and consistent set of rules here like England has. But I doubt anything that reasonable will happen here soon. Perhaps all this confusion is partly fueled by some over-zealous archaeologists who don't want anyone to recover any treasures except themselves.

You can check the federal regulations on this web page: http://www.treasurefish.com/government.htm
Also look at this page where a finger is pointed at the archaeologists: http://www.metal-detecting-ghost-tow...ctinglaws.html

best wishes,
J_P

[Max]

TOO OLD VIEWS = TOO MANY LIMITATIONS = TOO MANY OUTLAWS

Yes i agree. I will take some time and read those you send me. Thanks!
I saw many sites in USA promoting prospectors clubs and all included...
I think yhere must be very precise defined law about it in USA?
Any knowledge?

Thanks Quiaozhi,Max..!
Regards!

This is very imoprtant subject we have to talk about more...

Hi Ivconic,
I'm not a lawyer and don't know exactly what are rules in the US... but:
- think that MDetecting couldn't be a federal issue by general
- think that each state make its own rules about

If you can bear arms... you for sure could dig some coins right ???

Think that only if a site is inserted in some special list it become a federal matter and then state legislation, that must comply with federal protection of historical sites... eritage protection, is then overuled, as you would have in some special places like the Monument Valley or Liberty Island... ehm think that nobody could search with a metal detector there
(but police... for security reasons)!

Think also that in some native's territories it's same stuff... you know there were previous agreements between government and natives about that places...

Think that there could be state's limitations (but as exceptions).

Think that mdetecting is free... anyone can do... with just respecting federal/state limitations (that would be really few), and what you find is yours, and you can do what you want with it and just deal with landlord if any!

Please, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Best regards,
Max

BTW: seems another good reason to get a damn green card ! have to establish there !!!!

[ivconic]

Thanks!

Thanks a lot! It will take some time me to read all those, but i will for sure. I have idea to translate best parts and compose project for some statute changes here. At least, to show some people here how this should be done.
How things are running in modern countries...
I need some informations from Germany and France....Any echoes?
regards!

[Qiaozhi]

Didn't know you were in the UK Qiaozhi .

Yup we have some very good laws relating to metal detecting (I don't like the term treasure hunting, I think it makes us look like a bunch of money grabbing louts..OOPs that'll be the dealers then ). All that aside, it's basically, it's OK, but use common sense and steer clear of ANY historic protected sites (obvious really).

Personally, I think ANYONE who desecretes a grave, archaeologists included is a criminal , so burial sites I steer WELL clear of. I show the dead the respect they deserve., And yes, I LIKE smilies =-)

Hi Sean,

Do you live in Taunton, Somerset?

[hunterq3]

treasure hunting just not mention in chinese law.but all the treasure belong to the county! and the hunting should be in the right place