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[Morgan]

Only PI MD for Michael

Hi, it depends on your purpose of search. what are you looking for?
a single coin or even small bunch of coins PIs not good, yes should use VLFs and that at beaches not wild furious mineralized grounds.
for 10 years ago I used White's super spectrum XLT for 1 year all wasting time-life and some empty-holes and enormous false signals every where with those funny target IDs.
afterward I kissed and put it aside it sufficed for all my life and never want to try other similar toys now made by White's or Garrett or fisher.
I confronted to many serious THers who were highly angry of using White's or Garrett various models.
maybe those are good for people who want to find a single coin, ring at surface in smooth easy places like beaches but are entirely paralytic at wild conditions in opposite of PIs.
but if you;
1- don't mind to discrimination 2- search just in remote areas not indoor places and 3- leave/ignore small targets i.e. look for big precious OBTs at great depth, PIs(of course some) are best option.
of course it need high experience to analyze the signal and after that treasures are in your hands.
as Max pointed yes PIs hit some dense mineralized things like bricks. but with experience can realize them.
Ivconic points to Sirius which being sold by DTI firm, I had an opportunity to see Genesis model yes very weak, couldn't give even a single beep for our buried test target at 3 meters depth with its' large funny LCD and many of ridiculous menu in the program.

Who has really found a treasure by VLFs at 350 Cm depth? but I know a man who found it with Pulse Star II 9 months ago.
it consisted of a jar including 27 Kg gold coin + 5 small gold statues and a gold bowl. totally was 32-33 Kg.
this was his 6th excavated treasure by a PI, I know before that found 2 jars full of coins with Lorenz.
of course he is a member of this forum maybe himself desire to tell all the story details.
This man is one of many of successful users that likewise many many of people never want to reflect their results by good PIs.

anyway is unfair judge to push aside valuable PIs and compare them with weak VLFs toys.
PIs are best 1st for their own users and purposes 2nd some especial places and here we get the answer of this unregistered friend; users are confined to 50-100 person per year.

I make a search in internet some time ago because of MDL 8500,trying to help you,as results i find other PI device microprocessor controled ,LCD display,very similar to your MDL,this company say this PI device can find big object buried 8 meters deep...Its a lot of power,is your MDL capable of this results?

[Max]

Hi, it depends on your purpose of search. what are you looking for?
a single coin or even small bunch of coins PIs not good, yes should use VLFs and that at beaches not wild furious mineralized grounds.
for 10 years ago I used White's super spectrum XLT for 1 year all wasting time-life and some empty-holes and enormous false signals every where with those funny target IDs.
afterward I kissed and put it aside it sufficed for all my life and never want to try other similar toys now made by White's or Garrett or fisher.
I confronted to many serious THers who were highly angry of using White's or Garrett various models.
maybe those are good for people who want to find a single coin, ring at surface in smooth easy places like beaches but are entirely paralytic at wild conditions in opposite of PIs.
but if you;
1- don't mind to discrimination 2- search just in remote areas not indoor places and 3- leave/ignore small targets i.e. look for big precious OBTs at great depth best PIs(of course some) are best option.
of course it need high experience to analyze the signal and after that treasures are in your hands.
as Max pointed yes PIs hit some dense mineralized things like bricks. but with experience can realize them.
Ivconic points to Sirius which being sold by DTI firm, I had an opportunity to see Genesis model yes very weak, couldn't give even a single beep for our buried test target at 3 meters depth with its' large funny LCD and many of ridiculous menu in the program.

Who has really found a treasure by VLFs at 350 Cm depth? but I know a man who found it with Pulse Star II 9 months ago.
it consisted of a jar including 27 Kg gold coin + 5 small gold statues and a gold bowl. totally was 32-33 Kg.
this was his 6th excavated treasure by a PI, I know before that found 2 jars full of coins with Lorenz.
of course he is a member of this forum maybe himself desire to tell all the story details.
This man is one of many of successful users that likewise many many of people never want to reflect their results by good PIs.

anyway is unfair judge to push aside valuable PIs and compare them with weak VLFs toys.
PIs are best 1st for their own users and purposes 2nd some especial places and here we get the answer of this unregistered friend; users are confined to 50-100 person per year.

Hi,
I don't agree that VLFs are toys... some are respectable machines... with descent performances... and I know a number of VLFs found real treasures... not just an e.g. gold ring. Sure they have not the detection range that a PI could hit... with e.g. a large 2mx2m coil, that's fairly obvious.

But you must understand that the big part of TH world is made by users who search for small stuff also, single pieces... gold rings, coins etc not just big bucks in caves and tunnels.

I know you're talking seriously about that "region" (I don't wanna give its name here)... where treasures are, like you reported, found by PIs just at meters underground... but you will agree that if you wanna find e.g. civil war relics... you cannot do with large 2mx2m coil and a PI... unless you look for a cannon or something.

What if your purpose is finding bullets, or coins or silver buttons ??? Can you do it with a PI equipped with e.g. an 8'' coil ??? No, that's the answer. And many people here look for them... and similar "treasures".

Unfortunately not every part of the world have hidden, large, treasures like you can find at your places... and not everywhere people can swing around 2mx2m coils and dig 3 meters holes!

If we talk of depth location, no disc your argumentation is PERFECT. But if we talk of everyday THing is totally inconsistent with the purpose of my post.

When I read or hear of "discriminating" PI I cannot just think at depth PI (where BTW disc ability it's like using tarots...also) but at small, handheld units... like e.g. Nemesis/Nexus so acclaimed hit on the market... I still (unfortunately) don't see.

If we talk of serious VLFs... like e.g. Saxon, Nexus, Minelab's etc etc that goes deep you'll see that VLFs win hands-down on PIs: they find the stuff, the good stuff at big depth like a PI does but have serious ground balancing and serious discrimination. That's the point: aren't "toys" but working machines and make people who own them get money and repay detector in a few time !

So... I already wrote that depth location is PI's realm but some VLFs outperform and beat PIs hands down on small items search (e.g. coins and relics), and these aren't toys at all.

Just the fact one could cost 3000pounds will let you belive it's not anything foolish if people (expert people) wanna buy after a tryout...not like with LRLs... where people buy the toy and then , just after, descovers that it doesn't work.

Kind regards,
Max

[GT Blocker]

Congratulations, Carl!

Hey Carl,
I went back through ALL of your posts on Eric's site (and this one) as I researched PI's. In a backwards sort of way, I followed your development of the HH. The HammerHead project took years of your time and dedication, a true labor of love and devotion.
The best employees are those who love their job, which means Whites is very lucky to have you on their team.
I hope you still have time for us 'newbies' later, once you settle in to your new digs.
(Does this mean the uP HH is dead?)
Seriously, Congratulations, Carl! To do what you love to do is the greatest gift of all. Good luck on your new endeavor.
Thanks for all of your help for me and all of us...
Gregory

[ivconic]

"...Hi, it depends on your purpose of search. what are you looking for?
a single coin or even small bunch of coins PIs not good, yes should use VLFs and that at beaches not wild furious mineralized grounds.
for 10 years ago I used White's super spectrum XLT for 1 year all wasting time-life and some empty-holes and enormous false signals every where with those funny target IDs.."

Yes, Pi's supposed to be good in locating large piles of metal a bit deeper in soil than Vlf's can reach. Very rare situations....at least in my country. Aint no tanks burried here..... or airplanes...pitty.
About XLT....ha,ha,ha!!! Now you stated something very strange here!?
XLT is a state of the art of detecor. Extremly powerfull, extremly accurate and most sofisticated disc cicuitry you can ever find in md world. Ha,ha,ha!!!
Your poor results with it can be explained only in possibillity that your particular XLT was somehow broken and inaccurate or that you didnt knew how to adjust it proprely...no other explanations. Eagle serie is rather complex to work with. Must learn and know all the details for proper adjustments. Otherwise you better do not take Eagle to work with, you can be very disapointed than...
Garret GTI2500 unlike Eagle have bit worse disc cicuitry and ocassionally it can give false indications. Yet at GTI2500 there is another benefit - it is very deeep, very,very deep! So it can go very deep in soil and locate large and medium sized objects at extra depths. I can say also Garrett GTI2500 with Scorcher coil is deeper than PI Pulse Star II with 45cm monocoil. Many times prooved on the field.
So...you are wrong Michael...very wrong.

But.... other hand.... your point of view could be right. It need to be cleared what expectations we are talking here about? What do we want to achieve on the field?
What do we expect?
If you expect to find gold bar (13kg) at 4 meters depth...than, my friend, you cant get help from any posssible detector in this world. Neither Garret, neither Eagle, neither any powerfull Pi would help you.
Trust me.

My expectations are very clear. I do expect to find a ring at 30cm, coin at 30cm, pot full of coins (10x10cm) at ...let's say 50-60cm...and that is all. Those are my best expectations.
I do not have other ambitions..

For people who expect to find huge metal objects at 2-3 meters depth , than PI could be good solution.
But not only one. Even better is to use some magnetometer,gradiometer or something simillar.
So..in a way, Michael you can be very right. In that case i can agree with you.
Cheers

[michael]

I make a search in internet some time ago because of MDL 8500,trying to help you,as results i find other PI device microprocessor controled ,LCD display,very similar to your MDL,this company say this PI device can find big object buried 8 meters deep...Its a lot of power,is your MDL capable of this results?

1- why don't you share us in addresses? I’m sure are hobby in comparison with MDL
maybe you found these: http://www.electron.de/php/metallsu.php
or http://www.detector-trade.de/English/DTI-Puls.htm

2- As you wrote the maker tells.... the maker claims..... again maker advertisement the matter is never reliable.
as DTI claimed its' Genesis can detect up to 10 meters, but what we experienced was a quarter power.
about MDL8500 power asked: yes, maybe you never believe, I should at first emphasize that no reason here to boast anything as; 1st I'm not maker or have no connection with makers 2nd have no decision to sell it even for 10000000000$ offer. Hence no need to advertise.
what we recently hit is at least at 8-10 meters, or more. we know it.
in another place (based on a map which pointed that treasury is at 25 m depth and we know 100% the exact location and point ), MDL hit it easily and first signals appeared from more than 150 meters to location !!!!!) and about 50 meters to location MDL was gonna to suicide.
This was before our latest hit thereby we knew MDL behavior for real large OBTs.
of course that place is entirely unworkable for digging as is a huge project and all things will get on **** at first night. albeit we never need to dig there it was jus for test. I told these cos you asked me and saw no necessary to mention it before.
for these purposes I told you guys do your best to find maker it is really worth and is at first a help and favor to yourself afterward me.

Hi,
I don't agree that VLFs are toys... some are respectable machines... with descent performances... and I know a number of VLFs found real treasures... not just an e.g. gold ring. Sure they have not the detection range that a PI could hit... with e.g. a large 2mx2m coil, that's fairly obvious.

But you must understand that the big part of TH world is made by users who search for small stuff also, single pieces... gold rings, coins etc not just big bucks in caves and tunnels.

I know you're talking seriously about that "region" (I don't wanna give its name here)... where treasures are, like you reported, found by PIs just at meters underground... but you will agree that if you wanna find e.g. civil war relics... you cannot do with large 2mx2m coil and a PI... unless you look for a cannon or something.

What if your purpose is finding bullets, or coins or silver buttons ??? Can you do it with a PI equipped with e.g. an 8'' coil ??? No, that's the answer. And many people here look for them... and similar "treasures".......

Hi, I'm sure and know PIs are inuseful and unworkable in many places, no doubt. or not reliable for small targets and there other detectors which are from VLFs are very good choice, if I tell toy not in entire aspect of course for my situations and conditions.
anf if you remember in "Real metal detectors" thread I pointed we have found some spots whcih marked and is for our future project to confirm with other kind of MDs like a a good minelab MD.
yes impossible to search with a round coil e.g. 8" with a PI, then for these purpose VLFs are the best.
but when you mount 2m x 2m coil of PI for a remote area, you fly on ground, you reign there.
most of your comments not deniable. and you implicitly confirmed some of my ideas.
Max, When you talk about great depth found by VLFs, how deep for instance and for what?

[michael]

About XLT....ha,ha,ha!!! Now you stated something very strange here!?XLT is a state of the art of detecor. Extremly powerfull, extremly accurate and most sofisticated disc cicuitry you can ever find in md world. Ha,ha,ha!!!Your poor results with it can be explained only in possibillity that your particular XLT was somehow broken and inaccurate or that you didnt knew how to adjust it proprely...no other explanations.

Hi,
XLT is state of art? for what? depth? serious or kidding man? all we got was maximum 120 Cm ability for depth. at that time I remember had no easy access to internet then I faxed to White's firm and complained about poor depth.
"Kenned White" (if I recall his name correctly) himself answered me that this machine ability is this, don't expect more.he confirmed all we had got; detecting every minerals at surface,..... hence tha machine was not out of order.
I think have White's fax paper in my archive let me can find and take a picture of that. it should be darkened by this time.
we even used the White's unique loop( 65" magnum force ) nothing changed. maybe had somehow discrimination for superficial targets, if I remember well with pulling the trigger in back of LCD pannel.

about poor experience no, again unfair. at least we do best and the most hard work-experience for any gotten MD afterward release opinions.

.....I can say also Garrett GTI2500 with Scorcher coil is deeper than PI Pulse Star II with 45cm monocoil. Many times prooved on the field.....

here, yes, you're right of course only with these kind of coils, but how and for what?
for a somehow limited place (not vast) where you have a map of treasure or a test target which you know the place just for test the power( i.e. known buried metal) this differs highly from when you blind search a place or you are hesitant for a treasure in e.g. 1 hectare x 1 hectare. so should dig for every mineral concentration. here PIs are predominantly better.
when one MD passes test hitting at depth is first step, then how about reliability and precision of results?
I think here is a main discrepancy between here and there and it's for expectations of hunting we want to hunt like an elephant and you a pheasant each requires its' espesific gun each gun is useful for the purpose.

[Max]

1- why don't you share us in addresses? I’m sure are hobby in comparison with MDL
maybe you found these: http://www.electron.de/php/metallsu.php
or http://www.detector-trade.de/English/DTI-Puls.htm

2- As you wrote the maker tells.... the maker claims..... again maker advertisement the matter is never reliable.
as DTI claimed its' Genesis can detect up to 10 meters, but what we experienced was a quarter power.
about MDL8500 power asked: yes, maybe you never believe, I should at first emphasize that no reason here to boast anything as; 1st I'm not maker or have no connection with makers 2nd have no decision to sell it even for 10000000000$ offer. Hence no need to advertise.
what we recently hit is at least at 8-10 meters, or more. we know it.
in another place (based on a map which pointed that treasury is at 25 m depth and we know 100% the exact location and point ), MDL hit it easily and first signals appeared from more than 150 meters to location !!!!!) and about 50 meters to location MDL was gonna to suicide.
This was before our latest hit thereby we knew MDL behavior for real large OBTs.
of course that place is entirely unworkable for digging as is a huge project and all things will get on **** at first night. albeit we never need to dig there it was jus for test. I told these cos you asked me and saw no necessary to mention it before.
for these purposes I told you guys do your best to find maker it is really worth and is at first a help and favor to yourself afterward me.


Hi, I'm sure and know PIs are inuseful and unworkable in many places, no doubt. or not reliable for small targets and there other detectors which are from VLFs are very good choice, if I tell toy not in entire aspect of course for my situations and conditions.
anf if you remember in "Real metal detectors" thread I pointed we have found some spots whcih marked and is for our future project to confirm with other kind of MDs like a a good minelab MD.
yes impossible to search with a round coil e.g. 8" with a PI, then for these purpose VLFs are the best.
but when you mount 2m x 2m coil of PI for a remote area, you fly on ground, you reign there.
most of your comments not deniable. and you implicitly confirmed some of my ideas.
Max, When you talk about great depth found by VLFs, how deep for instance and for what?

Hi,
I was referring to some different cases. One is the viking treasure found in UK some months ago... I posted pictures somewhere... I retrieved them from BBC website and other places. Depth was not much in that case... maybe something 45-60cm.

Other cases that I know, but cannot talk about details... where, who etc also cause I know just fragments of the whole stories... that indeed are truth cause stuff really exist and was found in the way I know, some I saw with my eyes... some by pictures etc....well

in some cases VLF MDs detected the good stuff at 70 to 90cm underground.

Big stuff also... silver and gold stuff... lot of things inside different kind of containers (not ferrous containers , of course).

So... I know of at least 6 big treasures found with VLFs... big value for some of them, all under 1m depth.

It's clear VLFs cannot compete with PI on detection range... but they sometimes lead to success in the 1m scenario.

BTW I know of one of these treasures firstly "discovered" by a PSII ! But people had bad , heavy day that time...lot of trash and deep empty holes dug (apart iron trash) that time... they just mark the place and went home... tired!
just after a couple of months (yes, months!) they went back to the same place, after at least 20 THs dug stuff there... but this time with a powerful VLF... along with the PSII and the VLF indicate that the spot was actually from non-ferrous target: they dug 90cm about of incredibly hard soil... then found the treasure inside a very large pot made all of thick silver full of decorative patterns etc of course, full of VERY good stuff!

Probably , in ancient time, someone hide there the treasure in a hurry but then never recovered back.

What a surprise! they didn't trust PSII that time... and risk of missing the good stuff! Their only luck was other THs haven't such a good VLF they used the second time... but probably the some VLF toys we are talking about here. These are the risks of using a PI in an infested soil... like farm soil... where you're easy disappointed after spent all the day digging horseshoes at 50cm.

But for your purposes... the depth PI are very good!

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

"...Hi,
XLT is state of art? for what? depth? serious or kidding man? all we got was maximum 120 Cm ability for depth. at that time I remember had no easy access to internet then I faxed to White's firm and complained about poor depth.
"Kenned White" (if I recall his name correctly) himself answered me that this machine ability is this, don't expect more.he confirmed all we had got; detecting every minerals at surface,..... hence tha machine was not out of order.
I think have White's fax paper in my archive let me can find and take a picture of that. it should be darkened by this time...."

Ha,ha,ha,ha!!!! Now i understand it! Now it is all clear to me! Big missunderstanding here!!!! Yes of course, 120 to 150cm is best XLT can do, of course. I agree. But is that not good!? What did you expected Michael???
You cant expect to go more than that with VLF??
What the heck did you expected? 3 meters? 4 meters? C'mon, be real
I had wrong impression that you are complaining on XLT cose it can not do much less than 120cm...
Comparing to 99% of other VLF's on market today (except White's newer products) XLT is real "beast", far away from any competition, refering depth and disc...both.
Trully...i havent seen yet even PI detector to go deeper than that with same sized coil. Neither one. Put 25cm coil on any PI you want and test it. I am sure it can not go deeper than XLT in any condition.
So? What are we talking here Michael? What is the point?
If you used 2x2 meters coil on some PI and reached more depth...it does not mean it is better and deeper than XLT. No way!
For that reason and many other reasons you not supposed to come here and claim XLT and simillars are toys. Those are not toys. XLT is state of the art metal detecor. Aint no PI can beat that. Period.

Cheers..

[michael]

I was referring to some different cases. One is the viking treasure found in UK some months ago... I posted pictures somewhere... I retrieved them from BBC website and other places. Depth was not much in that case... maybe something 45-60cm.

Other cases that I know, but cannot talk about details... where, who etc also cause I know just fragments of the whole stories... that indeed are truth cause stuff really exist and was found in the way I know, some I saw with my eyes... some by pictures etc....well

in some cases VLF MDs detected the good stuff at 70 to 90cm underground.

Big stuff also... silver and gold stuff... lot of things inside different kind of containers (not ferrous containers , of course).

So... I know of at least 6 big treasures found with VLFs... big value for some of them, all under 1m depth.
It's clear VLFs cannot compete with PI on detection range... but they sometimes lead to success in the 1m scenario.

Hi, if so, not noticeable depth. Of course are interesting.

BTW I know of one of these treasures firstly "discovered" by a PSII ! But people had bad , heavy day that time...lot of trash and deep empty holes dug (apart iron trash) that time... they just mark the place and went home... tired!
just after a couple of months (yes, months!) they went back to the same place, after at least 20 THs dug stuff there... but this time with a powerful VLF... along with the PSII and the VLF indicate that the spot was actually from non-ferrous target: they dug 90cm about of incredibly hard soil... then found the treasure inside a very large pot made all of thick silver full of decorative patterns etc of course, full of VERY good stuff!

here you absolutely confused with other guys. the guys I pointed are my compatriots and at first night hit the target without any hesitation. first signals appeared from 7-8 meters of point. And they could nail treasure after 5 night working on hard soil.
from your story sounds they were inexperienced with their PS II. a good PI suffices unless you pinpoint wrongly and after digging
pass the target, then a VLF is good to search dug well wall to find it.

Yes of course, 120 to 150cm is best XLT can do, of course. I agree. But is that not good!? What did you expected Michael???

not good, why good? when can hit a car size at 120 Cm, when beeps for every mineralized place. State of art???!!!
you didn't pay attention to my comments, I told, depth is 1st step not enough, then how about
accuracy, precision and reliability of results? You know these, why feign?
doesn't suffice you hit test target, if you could hold it and search a vast area without false signal or with least false signals is OK.
maybe XLT able to hit at 150 Cm but it detects all nonmetal things like metal, so should dig every Cm to reach a metal and this is a misery for hunter.

If you used 2x2 meters coil on some PI and reached more depth...it does not mean it is better and deeper than XLT. No way!

really? If it was such easy why they deprived many people for this long time from super high ability in their products?
only with omitting 8 meters cable? they really owe people.
no problem, maybe XLT makers are ignorant of this simple solution, so Ivconic, suggest them to consider a 2m x 2m frame or 1m x 1m for that to reach great depths. it seems those are capable. Can you let this being continued? hum?

[ivconic]

Michael i lost your point totally!? I really do not understand what are you saying here?
Any VLF will loose disc accuracy at more than 40-50cm in the ground. Simply cose ground affects much phase angle.
But with Pi's situation is worse. Aint no PI to discriminate even close as any ordinary VLF. So...after 40-50cm and deeper both PI and VLF are totally inaccuratte in discrimination. So...? What is the point in your last post?
Depth...? Is that main goal for PI's? I agree, but only when using extremly large coils like 1x1 or 2x2 meters. Only than.
When using smaller coils any VLF will be superior over PI. Make a test, take VLF with 25cm coil and PI with 25cm coil and test both.
Last words in your posts are not serious....me to suggest somebody..something.... You are not serious and real. I am trying friendly help you to understand something...but you dont want to accept.Doesnt suits your dreams. Rough reallity hurting your dreams.
You can not put just any extra large coil on VLF.You cant put 2x2 meters coil on VLF. There are certain coil sizes limitations at VLF's due tendency to maintain acceptable performances. All performances drops fast with extra large coil on VLF. Ground influence is huge , TX power disipation, totally shifted phase, disc cicuitry out of order....etc...etc...
So...in acceptable ranges, when you consider same coil sizes at VLF and PI, VLF is always superior over PI. Always. You should accept this or if not than i have nothing more to talk with you. Huge waste of time would be.
And if we take only PI in considerations, without comapring with VLF, than also PI lack more lacks. First of all ground penetration is not that great as you can read in all those wild advertisments. No way. One thing is testing it in the air and quite another testing it on burried metal in ground. Suppose you knew this before?....Or not..?
So .....aint no PI detector whit which you gonna detect some metal object at 3 meters depth BURRIED in the ground. Ha,ha,ha! It is true.You didnt knew this before? How come?
So Michael....just keep dreaming sweet dreams...wish you luck!

[michael]

Ok Ivconic, as you pointed maybe would be waste of time.
anyway thanks a lot for your points and tries to do favor and helps.
But man, I never live with dreams, I'm 100% realistic cos know the damages which one person gets of dreaming life.

[Max]

Michael i lost your point totally!? I really do not understand what are you saying here?
Any VLF will loose disc accuracy at more than 40-50cm in the ground. Simply cose ground affects much phase angle.
But with Pi's situation is worse. Aint no PI to discriminate even close as any ordinary VLF. So...after 40-50cm and deeper both PI and VLF are totally inaccuratte in discrimination. So...? What is the point in your last post?
Depth...? Is that main goal for PI's? I agree, but only when using extremly large coils like 1x1 or 2x2 meters. Only than.
When using smaller coils any VLF will be superior over PI. Make a test, take VLF with 25cm coil and PI with 25cm coil and test both.
Last words in your posts are not serious....me to suggest somebody..something.... You are not serious and real. I am trying friendly help you to understand something...but you dont want to accept.Doesnt suits your dreams. Rough reallity hurting your dreams.
You can not put just any extra large coil on VLF.You cant put 2x2 meters coil on VLF. There are certain coil sizes limitations at VLF's due tendency to maintain acceptable performances. All performances drops fast with extra large coil on VLF. Ground influence is huge , TX power disipation, totally shifted phase, disc cicuitry out of order....etc...etc...
So...in acceptable ranges, when you consider same coil sizes at VLF and PI, VLF is always superior over PI. Always. You should accept this or if not than i have nothing more to talk with you. Huge waste of time would be.
And if we take only PI in considerations, without comapring with VLF, than also PI lack more lacks. First of all ground penetration is not that great as you can read in all those wild advertisments. No way. One thing is testing it in the air and quite another testing it on burried metal in ground. Suppose you knew this before?....Or not..?
So .....aint no PI detector whit which you gonna detect some metal object at 3 meters depth BURRIED in the ground. Ha,ha,ha! It is true.You didnt knew this before? How come?
So Michael....just keep dreaming sweet dreams...wish you luck!

Hi Ivconic,
one time I saw the PSII detecting an old iron barrel (very large thing.... about 1m height x 60cm diameter) at 5meters underground.... , this was with the 2m coil...but was long time ago so I don't trust memory much... maybe was 4.5meters...

Some depth PI can do that... but what I noticed is that soil influence is often so high that results are quite unpredictable... even with large targets.

Some soils are pretty hard to penetrate by the RF generated by any commercial PI and so it's totally unuseful having a PI in that conditions for that depths.

I remember also I read somewhere of old plane bombs locating using large PIs but that's not THing application for sure!

The worse of PIs for depth is that unless using the 1mx1m or 2mx2m coils you'll not detect anything at depth. I know they are often inefficient with smaller coils... cause of timing mainly... but also cause they have to interact with soil from near using small coils like 8''. This is really true for things like PSII that sure don't shine when run on small coils... even less than using the large ones!

But I've made some good for use with 8'' and they are very aggressive things... but then you already knows the problem: no good digging half a meter to find an old horseshoe!

No disc? no good!

That's why I'm interested in replicating RH... I know it goes deep but has disc...I'm sure you agree.

Kind regards,
Max

[olympios]

To a treasure nunter, all these equipment are useful. It depends on what you are looking for. A small cache of coins, at 150cm depth, it won't be detected by a metal detector, even maybe at 100cm. There have to be lots of coins in order to be detected in those depths. In general, metal detectors are very useful on finding things that people lost in the sand in the beach. Of course, most people remove all their valuables (rings,chains etc) before going to the beach, lol. Now, don't take me wrong, metal detectors have been and still are treasure hunter's standard/must-have equipment. They are used for pin-pointing purposes and of course for close-to-surface detecting, even prospecting.
I understand what Michael is talking about. Some targets (mostly ancient artifacts) are buried in depths greater than 120cm. In areas that are on the side of a mountain or uneven surfaces, they have already been exposed due to erosion. At the bottom of a hill, they are now in greater depths due to accumulation of sand, earth (erosion, again).
Like I said earlier, it depends on what you are looking for, and where you are. In Greece for example, just about any treasure found is government property. Therefore you must be doing this at night, lol. In most cases, all digging must be done in one night only. It is too risky to go back and continue the next night. Ancient relics are found in graves at depths greater than one meter, caves, etc. So, now you see why metal detectors are not very successful at this type of hunting. But then again, they are very usefull for pin-pointing a target, but they may not be considered as the primary tool.
There are also some crazy stories about... trillions of English pounds dropped all over Greece during WW2. Lol, sounds like during the war, the British went into mass production of gold pounds, which they dropped onto Greece. No, they didn't try to kill the Germans by dropping the pounds on their heads; they dropped them to help the Greeks buy guns and ammo. Well, buy guns from where? The locall gun shop or... ebay? The Greeks did not need money, they needed guns. Money was useless! Anyway, those are noting but crazy stories. Where did the British find all that gold? And they dropped it all in Greece? Come on now!!! I was told that my grandfather had four mule loads of British gold. He took it to his hide-out but he got killed a few days later and his hide-out and gold was never found, lol. Just imagin; The British took quite a few billions in gold and gave it to my grandpa to fight the war!!! There are stories like this floating around all over Greece. If you add them together you're gonna come up with so much gold that the British could have paved all their highways with gold, lol.
Anyway, a serious treasure hunter always has a MD on he possession. I remember when a friend of mine found an ancient grave and opened it but found nothing. Finally he took me to the site to check it out with my MD. It was evident that the grave was opened many years ago and therefore there was nothing there. However, using the metal detector on the old diggings a found a handful of good quality coins.
To me, a metal detector is a very limited tool but extremely useful.

[michael]

To a treasure nunter, all these equipment are useful. It depends on what you are looking for. A small cache of coins, at 150cm depth, it won't be detected by a metal detector, even maybe at 100cm. There have to be lots of coins in order to be detected in those depths. In general, metal detectors are very useful on finding things that people lost in the sand in the beach. Of course, most people remove all their valuables (rings,chains etc) before going to the beach, lol. Now, don't take me wrong, metal detectors have been and still are treasure hunter's standard/must-have equipment. They are used for pin-pointing purposes and of course for close-to-surface detecting, even prospecting.
I understand what Michael is talking about. Some targets (mostly ancient artifacts) are buried in depths greater than 120cm. In areas that are on the side of a mountain or uneven surfaces, they have already been exposed due to erosion. At the bottom of a hill, they are now in greater depths due to accumulation of sand, earth (erosion, again).
Like I said earlier, it depends on what you are looking for, and where you are. In Greece for example, just about any treasure found is government property. Therefore you must be doing this at night, lol. In most cases, all digging must be done in one night only. It is too risky to go back and continue the next night. Ancient relics are found in graves at depths greater than one meter, caves, etc. So, now you see why metal detectors are not very successful at this type of hunting. But then again, they are very usefull for pin-pointing a target, but they may not be considered as the primary tool.
There are also some crazy stories about... trillions of English pounds dropped all over Greece during WW2. Lol, sounds like during the war, the British went into mass production of gold pounds, which they dropped onto Greece. No, they didn't try to kill the Germans by dropping the pounds on their heads; they dropped them to help the Greeks buy guns and ammo. Well, buy guns from where? The locall gun shop or... ebay? The Greeks did not need money, they needed guns. Money was useless! Anyway, those are noting but crazy stories. Where did the British find all that gold? And they dropped it all in Greece? Come on now!!! I was told that my grandfather had four mule loads of British gold. He took it to his hide-out but he got killed a few days later and his hide-out and gold was never found, lol. Just imagin; The British took quite a few billions in gold and gave it to my grandpa to fight the war!!! There are stories like this floating around all over Greece. If you add them together you're gonna come up with so much gold that the British could have paved all their highways with gold, lol.
Anyway, a serious treasure hunter always has a MD on he possession. I remember when a friend of mine found an ancient grave and opened it but found nothing. Finally he took me to the site to check it out with my MD. It was evident that the grave was opened many years ago and therefore there was nothing there. However, using the metal detector on the old diggings a found a handful of good quality coins.
To me, a metal detector is a very limited tool but extremely useful.

Hi, Olympios, You are absolutely right. what are my heart words.
you are from Greece, yes? it seems be a good field experienced just what I like.
Do you have any friend in USA? I asked this to join people who may are searching for a kind of PI which I own it as is a feat. see here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=14321
maybe you find a guy who has an address of this. one more person some increasing of success percent.

[ivconic]

"..one time I saw the PSII detecting an old iron barrel (very large thing....
about 1m height x 60cm diameter) at 5meters underground.... , this was
with the 2m coil...but was long time ago so I don't trust memory much...
maybe was 4.5meters..."

Now!? I am gonna take this as truth only because came from you Max. If it was from somebody else i would be sure it is lie. But knowing you already as very descent and fair person i will accept this and period.

"..To me, a metal detector is a very limited tool but extremely useful..."
Nothing is more true than this statement. I can only agree.
I am always optismist and for me "glass is half full"...for some pesimist here " glass is always half empty...". That is only difference between us here.


Michael, you are right. We not gonna argue, of course.
But i just remembered ROberts efforts to persuade you NOT to waste huge money on Mineoro. You argued with him up to "enemy" level.
RObert was banned from forum cose of that. And...at the end you,smart man, wasted huge money and bought expensive crap. Next month or two....no Michael!? Where is Michael!? You disapeared from forum for longer period. Were you ashamed much cose turned to be very naive? So...you are good and honest but sometimes very "fast" on mind! Think twice before make any move.