Important Announcement -- Please Read

[Great_Alex]

Iviconic you see full glass totally empty.

I know love of XLT blinds him . he compare VLF and PI MD that every of them built for different work .

USING VLF , PI even 2Box detectors depend on what we are looking for ?

Below i describe detectors and methods by target (It's only for Metal detector not GPR , LRL , ...)

1. (Depth 0 - 1.5 meters)
VLF Detectors one , two or multi frequencies are the best for finding relics and treasures with depth up to 1.5 meter of course with superior and large coils ,I used many of detectors but Minelab Explorer or White's DFX&XLT are better than othe for finding coins and jewlery in shallow ground ; minlab GP is excelent in depth and stablity but you find more junk with that after some working you may get bored of GP .
for all coin shooting the best detectors are VLF such Minelab Explorer or Whites Dfx,XLT ... but when the area is more clean with very less junk you can use Minelab SD or GP series they have superior depth a Minelab GP can Detect a Coin at 80cm depth.

2.(Depth 1 - 3 meters)
Please dont's think about discrimination , the discrimination limits to the first meter of depth .
2Box detectors are good for this reason cause one person can easily carry assemble and work with that even in hard terrain may with a PI detector is impossible for searching , 2 box detector have good pinpointing and you can easily find caves and tunnels with them , Discovery TF900 is a good choice cause have a good ground balancing and low cost .
some dtectors like Garrett GtI2500 with eagle eye loop and Master Hunter CXIII with BloodHound loop can easily do both of coin shooting and deep seeking( up to 2.5 meters) but not comlpete coin shooting like DFX of Complete 2box like TF900


Also you can use PI detectors with 1*1 meters Loop but using a PI is harder than a 2Box detectors

3.for deep search more than 2.5 meter it's better to find a real PI like Lorenz MDL PS2 ... .Forget the discrimination of your PI.

after recive a good signal you must use a another MD for finding junks at surface that may cause unwanted fault signals that may apear like a good deep treasure , for this reason it's better you use a VLF detector like XLT or Minelab cause PI detectors are weak to finding (Not Minelab GP) small shallow trash comparing with VLFs.
after cleaning the surface and testing again you can decide for digging

High voltage PI can penetrate more in ground ,
some people beter have more experience instead of imaginations about Metal Detectors.

Max is right 5 meters depth for PS2 for a large buried item is possible i have experienced mor than 4 meters with PS2 and about 7.5 with Lorenz.

Alex

[ivconic]

" Iviconic you see full glass totally empty.

I know love of XLT blinds him . he compare VLF and PI MD that every of them built for different work .

USING VLF , PI even 2Box detectors depend on what we are looking for ?"

No. My glass is always half full. Trust me.
Again wrong - i dont have XLT, i have Eagle Spectrum...
Yes you are right, there is HUGE LOVE between me and Spectrum!

Yes you are right, not suppesed to mix two different principles of metal detecing, i agree.
Every of them are made for different work. Again agree.

But if you followed this thread from a start, reading every post, you should know Michael first started with "labeling" various detectors with "toy" label and simillar. I just continued in that manner..
PI detectors are usefull for sure. With all limitations and drawbacks and of course benefits from them.
Pitty, but i havent seen any of few different types of PI detectors been able to detect anything under 150-200cm in the ground, so far...
In air..ok, those will detect extra large metall mass at high distances...probably more than 3 meters, but burried in soil? Hmmmm, i havent seen yet.
I checked PS II,Lorenz,Delta Pulse,Sirius,DBP2010 and few other. With various coils...up to 2x2 meters. No results.No detection.
Funny...this is not only my experience. Meeting different people i heard same story million times so far. There are ..probably over 50 PI detectors here, in area where i live. Neither one of those ever detected anything under 2 meters. Also neither one detected oil barrel (200l) burried 12 years ago, on 3 meters depth, in testing field, at one of my friends place.
Only OKM Gems did that pretty clear. But it is not PI detector.
So...?

[ivconic]

"Max is right 5 meters depth for PS2 for a large buried item is possible i have experienced mor than 4 meters with PS2 and about 7.5 with Lorenz.

Alex"

Indeed?
So you dug 7.5 meters hole to check what was detected?
Tell us what was that? What kind of metal and object?

[Unregistered]

for italians hunter, we want WHITE'S VOLCANO ok Carl?

[Aziz]

It's christmas time! My wishlist to Whites and Carl:

I want a new true digital VLF MD from Whites for reasonable price.
It should integrate:
- Lock-in Amplifier and
- Boxcar Averager

This promises much more accuracy (DISC), stability and sensitivity.
Otherwise, I have to develop my own Laptop MD further. Should I?

Aziz

[amtech2005]

Important Announcement -- Please Read

Carl , Since everyone is done Congratulating You !!!!!!...And are now making "Christmas Wish Lists" . Here are my "TWO WISHES" :

1. Think about making a "download link" for members only , that has 100% complete files of everything from our "Geotech Forum". From 1999 to present !!!!!

2. When you get to work , Please find out what happened to this "Whites P.I. Prototype" that Dissappeared !!!! See photos..........Thank-You.........Eugene

[Great_Alex]

Pitty, but i havent seen any of few different types of PI detectors been able to detect anything under 150-200cm in the ground, so far...

the maximum operative depth depends on many factor , soil condition and minerals in soil , moisture , salt ... affect the depth . when the soil conditions was bad tuning the detector means reducing the sensivity and the oprative depth and more size of coil never help for penetrate more cause every time you make a larger coil your detector needs to more reduce the sensivity in automatic devices like Ps2 OR LORENZ you could not see this obviously but maybe you find this when you use of PI with manual tuning in diffrent places with diffrent soil conditions , so your right it's possiblefor lorenz or PS2 never exceed more than 2 meters depth in your working area and when a place has such soil condition the best choice (for MD) is a vlf motion detector like Minelab explorer or white's that you ignore more ferromagnetic items cause soil mostly have ferromagnetic behaviour in such conditions.

but when i said i detect an object in 7.5 depth ,the soil conidtion are very good for PI , it was a buried treasure room of about 1800 years old with 2.5*3 meters and about 1.9m height then we complete our investegations with GSSI SIR with 100Mhz antenna and then ...( it was a government project that i was a memeber of discovery team ) i dont want to discuss about that more cause i know 99% members of this forum never go for such treasure finding they work for some hobbies and having some good time with each other .

and about gems you know it has good sensevity for buried ferromagnetic items and in mineralized soil a data logger with advanced interpolation software that ignore or autocorrect mineral effect doing like a miracle.but i know if you try your test field with a datalogging PI your results improving in quaility.

Alex

[ivconic]

Alex, i am already fully awared of all the theory you 've been talking about.
No need to write such long posts, only for reason to void direct answer on my direct question!

"..but when i said i detect an object in 7.5 depth ,the soil conidtion are very good for PI , it was a buried treasure room of about 1800 years old with 2.5*3 meters and about 1.9m height then we complete our investegations with GSSI SIR with 100Mhz antenna and then ...( it was a government project that i was a memeber of discovery team ) i dont want to discuss about that more cause i know 99% members of this forum never go for such treasure finding they work for some hobbies and having some good time with each other ...."

Nobody here will not push you to disclose some "goverment secrets".
Question was very simple:

When you detected something at 7.5 meters...you dug to see what was there? Right?
So you are claiming - you detected something with PI detector at 7.5 meters? Right?
And you dug and found out.....whatever you found out (never mind), right?

With PI..????? Alex ...NOT POSSIBLE. Your story is not possiblle, not true.
For some reason you are not saying the truth.

It is (probably) possibble to locate some object at that depth, but not with PI, no way!
Is it possible that you mixed / confused that device with some other type of locator? Could it be some ground radar?

With PI...not possible, even if it was large room with treasure down there.

[Goodrat]

Congrats.
While you are there, can you ask why their audio has too much dynamic range and we have to put limiters in out headphones just to accomodate Whites machines?!!

[Carl-NC]

Congrats.
While you are there, can you ask why their audio has too much dynamic range and we have to put limiters in out headphones just to accomodate Whites machines?!!

Remind me to talk to you about that later. Ping me in Sept.

[olympios]

Hi, Olympios, You are absolutely right. what are my heart words.
you are from Greece, yes? it seems be a good field experienced just what I like.
Do you have any friend in USA? I asked this to join people who may are searching for a kind of PI which I own it as is a feat. see here:
http://thunting.com/geotech/forums/s...ad.php?t=14321
maybe you find a guy who has an address of this. one more person some increasing of success percent.

Michael, hi.
I reside in the USA but I visit Greece twice a year. I have already read your thread about the MDL 8500, and I searched in the internet for that unit but nothing found. Definitely it does not look like a military item. Nor would someone take the components from a military detector, fabricate a box/case to place them in, just to sell it to you. It is, apparently, a unit that someone made a few years ago but for some reason did not mass produce. For the same reason, it does not show in the net anywhere.
Anyway, we are hijacking this thread, lol.

[Great_Alex]

Dear Iviconic

I don't want to prove my experience to you. you don't know how use of PI detector , it's your problem . searching for deep treasure need more experience than some electronics information. i know your electronic knowledge is good but it's not a reason that you're a good treasure hunter.

[michael]

"..one time I saw the PSII detecting an old iron barrel (very large thing....
about 1m height x 60cm diameter) at 5meters underground.... , this was
with the 2m coil...but was long time ago so I don't trust memory much...
maybe was 4.5meters..."

Now!? I am gonna take this as truth only because came from you Max. If it was from somebody else i would be sure it is lie. But knowing you already as very descent and fair person i will accept this and period.

Hi,
1- I see you approve or deny something just based on your desire to somebody not your strong test experiences If you've been sure of something nothing can change your opinion . now one statement do it?

Michael, you are right. We not gonna argue, of course.
But i just remembered ROberts efforts to persuade you NOT to waste huge money on Mineoro. You argued with him up to "enemy" level.
RObert was banned from forum cose of that. And...at the end you,smart man, wasted huge money and bought expensive crap. Next month or two....no Michael!? Where is Michael!? You disapeared from forum for longer period. Were you ashamed much cose turned to be very naive? So...you are good and honest but sometimes very "fast" on mind! Think twice before make any move.

"
2- at that time I never had decision to argue with you or your friend Robert, our subject was on LRLing totally not mineoro especially. I was telling some LRLs work and know this and have seen and still I'm standing on my words. nothing changed.
about mineoro it differs as was new for me without any background after getting it were hardly busy for testing and get a certain answer.
for FG80 this was the main reason of my silence(or disappearing).
it seems some times you give hardly wrong opinions despite your electronic info. be more deep, man.
for what should be ashamed? or shy? I don't see any reason, still nothing changed. mineoro investor was another man, we jus imported it and hadto work intensly for some months to give back FG 80 to investor.

I never run an opinion about one device by the time pass all kind of tests in our own situation( including different places at different areas= very vast realm) which is hard and time consuming. OK ? got it?
and still by this time cannot tell any 100% idea against mineoro unless get a target in a place where before that mineoro fails to detect it. got it? this is my policy and tactic. despite what some mostly do, when one time fail with a device, overrule it.
then still all things are as the same.
and by the moment I realize, will surely tell here if mineoro is a crap or not; with all documants.

3- Robert was banned cos of no controlling his tongue or mind either in public view with his bitter tone or in PM to me which insulted me, my family, mother,...... and even threatened me to death..... and got merit answers.
then don't screw words, he argued with me up to enemy not me .....enough?
I never had before mentioned these here, you pointed it and pushed me write despite my heart-desires.

of course you are respectful to me due to your electronic knowledge and at least I built good "Zahori" based on your leadings.
and every time we use zahori remember you Ivconic.

[Max]

Hi guys,
c'mon ...this thread is related to Carl's new job... not PIs.

The fact so many different claims and reports are about PIs, expecially depth kind, is related to the unreliable and unique soils conditions...

In some soils even the best depth PI will fail at 3meters, no matter of target... unless it's something big like an old tank buried there!

At those depths of many meters the soil factor become more and more important and could cancel out easy a good signal you , otherwise, will see in fair soil conditions.

It's like with VLFs and hi mineralized soil.... in that soils very few machines could operate well and still find targets ...but detection is limited by the masking effect of soil above and around target.

It's like penetrating a dense fog... the more the power of lights there and the more you will see just all becoming white!
In these worse conditions even the most powerful MD will be blind cause of the sorrounding strong signal due to soil influence.

Kind regards,
Max

[ivconic]

Max you are right. Sorry Carl, for spoiling a bit this subject with other non-relevant rethorics
Was not my (also Michael's and Alex's) intentions.
This is why this forum is so great; man can come here and enjoy talking with other people, even argue, learn something new and give something own. At the end of a day only benefits get from here. At least i have that attitude, dont know about others, but assume they agree.

"..unless it's something big like an old tank buried there! .."

Actually that was my main point here, to push Michael and Alex to accept reallity - fact that there is not such HUGE metal masses in the ground...at least not oftenly. Fact..very rare, 1:1 000 000 000 possibillity.

Again, Carl wish you real joy working at White's, that is most important.