GoldPic code Again

[Rov]

Hi ,Ive done search here on the forums,an limited result?
I got two old goldpic PCB built an complete,Not by me! but checked an correct.as per Net. data etc. Just they got no Pic micro with them?
Ive purchased a couple of new Pic 16F84a as per original.
Ive got Pic Programmers x2 a JDM serial port an PicAll2 ,including softwares
Pony Prog. WinPic, an Ic Programmer an Others. to put code on them.
Just I got no code??
as per discusuion on forums an elsewhere, this original Pic would have its code Locked an not accessable as is a credit to its developer. If I had the original supplied Pics. they no doubt probably work!
Ive got nothing but 2 pcb complete an 2 new purchased Pic micro.
I would supose that the Author original .T.Hill no longer suports this old PI device after 10 Years or whatever from development ?
Told that the Stuart PI code is similar ,but wont work on this?
Anybody at all developed a working code for this ,for Pic16f84 chip? an tested??
I dont understand why its so hard to get some correct working code for Pic in this day an age on the Net.... you go to Instructables an elsewhere all over the Net. an People Share??
Anybody? Thank You.
A PM would be nice? if you feel it not Public?

[nick_f]

I would supose that the Author original .T.Hill no longer suports this old PI device after 10 Years or whatever from development ?

Hi Rov,
Sorry to give you the bad news, but checking on the web site http://home.global.co.za/~trh/#Project it looks to me the project is very much alive and the author still sells the semi-kits.
If you can't find the source code or the hex file, I would suggest to try to modify the available code from the Stuart PI. You will soon realise there is quite a lot of work into developing a functional detector based on a microcontroller. If you manage to write the code, please share it with us

Regards,
Nicolae

[Rov]

Hi Nic,yes your right ,I will have a steep learning curve to develop working new code.
working with hardware an components is one thing,learning to set a working environment an code for a pic micro is another?
So many working examples an code for everything else Pic.but metal detectors?well no .
Anybody had experience with CoreChart for Pic development.?seems a local easy interface windows based pic code development tool for beginners,students,etc.?

[nick_f]

Hi Nic,yes your right ,I will have a steep learning curve to develop working new code.
working with hardware an components is one thing,learning to set a working environment an code for a pic micro is another?
So many working examples an code for everything else Pic.but metal detectors?well no .
Anybody had experience with CoreChart for Pic development.?seems a local easy interface windows based pic code development tool for beginners,students,etc.?

Hi Rov,
There are also source codes for the metal detectors, but unless you want to use them exactly as they are, it is useful to learn a bit about microcontrollers. Choose one type and start learning. There are plenty of examples and tutorials on the internet and it is an exciting process to get the microcontroller do what you want. I am also a beginner and I've done already a few basic programs, that flash leds, control stepper motors, generate beeps, etc. I use PIC16F628 at the moment.
For PIC microcontrollers, I recommend the tutorials from http://www.winpicprog.co.uk/
As a programming platform, I use MPLAB provided by Microchip themselves and this time I decided to do everything the difficult way, using assembly language. I am already able to generate the three pulses required for the Hammerhead and store the settings in the EEPROM, but I want to add a LCD screen and buttons to adjust the settings
The conclusion is that, if you want to do it, you can do it. It might be a longer road than you first expect, but it could be very rewarding. Split the project into small bits and concentrate on one bit at a time. Then you put them all together. By the time you finish all the bits, you will have more experience to combine everything.

Regards,
Nicolae

[Rov]

Hi Nic,I have MPLab as well for pics ,as well as much AVR stuff as well for Atmel.
You have any working code at all to share for Pic,metal detectors esp?
All I have is the demo.stuff from Pauls to suit the Stuart.
Plenty of other AVR stuff but its a different platform an doesnt apply.

[Carl-NC]

You will soon realise there is quite a lot of work into developing a functional detector based on a microcontroller.

Not at all! Maybe it's time to get back to work on Hammerhead II.

- Carl

[Rov]

Hammerhead 11,Woo Hoo!bring it on!Yes Please!
BTY,I will honour the work from T.Hill for the Goldpic an Paypal for a couple of preprogram Pics for these.
Can leave my head clear for other exciting projects.then!

[nick_f]

Not at all! Maybe it's time to get back to work on Hammerhead II.

- Carl

Hi Carl,
Maybe for you it's simple, for many of us it's not so simple. I started doing it in assembly on a PIC16F628A and I am able at the moment to control the LCD menu from pushbuttons and change the parameters.
I also made the code for the three outputs, I have to include it in the project.
The code has over 700 lines so far and next step for me is to do some maths operations on 16 bit. I spent a few tens of hours to get to this stage, blew an LCD and two microcontrollers (applied by mistake 14V on the 5V rail)
Are you programming in C? Do you have the free licence with limited size of code or full licence?

Regards,
Nicolae

[Mustafa]

Hi Nicolae,
C is better. If you are not happy with the final code size or speed, you can always convert your code to assembly easily. Code first in C, optimize later.
If you are interested in developing firmware for Hammerhead II in C I have an offer for you. Start a new thread in Hammerhead section and post your assembly code, then I will convert your code to C.
For Microchip PIC microcontrollers I prefer Hi-tech C. It has a 45 day fully working trial mode.
Best regards,
Mustafa

[nick_f]

Hi Nicolae,
C is better. If you are not happy with the final code size or speed, you can always convert your code to assembly easily. Code first in C, optimize later.
If you are interested in developing firmware for Hammerhead II in C I have an offer for you. Start a new thread in Hammerhead section and post your assembly code, then I will convert your code to C.
For Microchip PIC microcontrollers I prefer Hi-tech C. It has a 45 day fully working trial mode.
Best regards,
Mustafa

Dear Mustafa,
Thank you very much for the offer and for the tips. I might consider to sell a kit in the future and I want to keep the code private. Maybe Carl will come up with the code for his HHII project, or somebody else can start the new topic.

Regards,
Nicolae

[Melbeta]

Reading secured Pic16F84 chips.....

Hi Nic,yes your right ,I will have a steep learning curve to develop working new code.
working with hardware an components is one thing,learning to set a working environment an code for a pic micro is another?
So many working examples an code for everything else Pic.but metal detectors?well no .
Anybody had experience with CoreChart for Pic development.?seems a local easy interface windows based pic code development tool for beginners,students,etc.?

Rove,
I have a device, they were made in Russia, and sold from Italy, that will read some secured Pic16F84 chips, and sometimes it will not. And sometimes it will let me make copies of them, and the copies end up secured too.

I am in USA, specifically Colorado, so if you want to pay the postage, both ways, to and from you and me, and supply me with some blank Pic16F84 chips, I will attempt to do it for you free. And if by chance, you live close to me, you can drive here, and you and I will attempt to read the secured chips together....

What I mean is I will try to do it for you. Some chips will release the code, others will not release it. So if you have more than one secured chip, send them all. Just make sure I have blank chips, as it takes the source chip and writes to the blank chips. But anyway, whatever you send, as long as you pay the postage both ways, I will return to you.

Now, if I get a read from the chip, that is not secured anymore, I will then disassemble it for you, but it will not have any comments on the lines of code, will be a .asm type of file, and will send it along to you with your chips. Then if you know .asm code, you can go in an comment here and there if you want to. I can email the read to you, in case you do not want to pay for the return of the chips. Sometimes it will give me part of the secured code, sometimes all the secured code, and sometimes none of the secured code. What it does is glitch the chips with voltage, while it is trying to read them.

[Rov]

Melbeta,the device probably works the same way as the Mastera Satellite Card Cloning units,they run on pc thru serial port.to copy an clone satellite encrypt cards for sat. tv services.I believe most Sat. Smartcards are pic chip based also.
I understand the risk of Glitch the chips ,may make the original chip completely unusable.an no workable code extracted at all.is this true?

[Rov]

We see your result!

[Melbeta]

Yes that can be true....

Melbeta,the device probably works the same way as the Mastera Satellite Card Cloning units,they run on pc thru serial port.to copy an clone satellite encrypt cards for sat. tv services.I believe most Sat. Smartcards are pic chip based also. Not sure of that....
I understand the risk of Glitch the chips ,may make the original chip completely unusable.an no workable code extracted at all.is this true?

Yes, you have a grasp of smart card technology. The original ones were on cards, in Europe, and they were easily hacked.

The subsequent smart cards though, are created by Motorola, not Microchip, and are not easily hacked, and have not been hacked.

Neither have the Motorola MC68HC05SC24, SC** other size versions, which are the brains in the Scientific Atlanta SA8610x units. The "SC" stands for "smart card", and if you do a search, you will discover it is like TOP SECRET, and there is nothing but one simple .pdf file, that barely covers the chip. Motorola has eliminated any real information about the SC versions of chips.... Microchip does not have anything like it.

From those Motorola MC68HC05SC24 and other version SC chips, are derived the newer XC digital smart card chip "processor" chips, which also are not hacked and will not be hacked. Those are now licensed to Xilinix, and another manufacturer, as well as Motorola, and each uses a different marking technology. Incidently, the "XC" stands for "eXperimental Controller", rather than smart card, but in some Motorola documents, I found a reference to smart card technology.

There is a British electronics expert, who is going for his Doctors degree, who has hacked into the MC68HC05SC24 chips, and you can find his website telling how he did it, but you will find it hard to understand how he did it. At least I did.

All they have been able to hack on satellite and cable TV sets, are the storage Sram chips, which store and maintain the authorization bytes. They can mimic a authorized subscriber for some time, until the master systems finally overcome the "laziness" and then "poll" their real authorized subscribers, at that time they will be shutting off the clone units, and then I am told, will rewrite the software inside the clone units, so they cannot be pirated again. I have some friends inside the General Instrument digital research sections...

Now back to Microchip 16F84 and 16F84a chips, they are the more secure versions of the more early version, 16C84, which was easily hacked with a voltage glitch. Yes, hacking chips by voltage glitches, is a risk, it is like gambling with a one arm slot machine, each time you pull the handle, you can win or lose, and that is the same thing with those chips. I did lose one of them one time, for some reason the secured data in it was compromised and corrupted. And I do not know why. Usually you either get the secured data bytes, or you do not. But that is the breaks of the game. I can tell you there is a guy on the east coast, who I have used in the past, and his livelihood is hacking into and extracting chip data, but he does charge a fee for it, and I was doing it for nothing, or trying to do it for nothing.

This is some old information, and very old prices he charged years ago, for his services, and this all pertained to hacking cable box test chips. If interested, and if his phone number is still valid, give him a phone call. And tell him your problem, but do not mention anything other than you lost the chip file, like it is your test chip, not someone elses, or he might get the Heeby Jeebies if you have every heard that word....This guy is good!!! And these are all old chips, and you can see, that even back then, he was hacking into the Motorola 705 series version microprocessor chips, which were the ancestors of the 05 series versions of microprocessor chips. Like I said, he is good! And you can negotiate price, you know of course, that times are tough, and tough for him too....Now he was selling a hacking machines in the following material, not advertising his fees for hacking the software out of a Microchip 16F84/16F84a chip...

ACD INC (MIKE):
(703) 764-5361. Gal reader, hardware & software to read out the exact fuse map on Gals 16v8, 20v8, 22v10, 6001, 6002 chips. Will provide logic equations & Jedec files for most listed chip types. Device will not provide logic equations on 6001/6002 chip. This will work Lattice & Natl Semiconductor. There is an adapter for AMD chips for 16v8, 20v8, 22v10 chips. AMD adapter does not work that well, but is included with kit. $1,600 price, 90 day part/labor warranty. Mfg in China. PLD Analyzer, hardware & software for 10H8, 12H6, 14H4, 16H2, 10L8, 12L6, 14L4, 16L2, 10P8, 12P6, 14P4, 16P2, 16H8, 16L8, 16P8, 16R8, 16R6, 16R4, 16RP8, 16RP6, 16RP4, 16x4, 16c1, 18p8, 14H8, 16H6, 18H4, 20H2, 14L8, 16L6, 18L4, 20L2, 14P8, 16P6, 18P4, 20P2, 20H8, 20L8, 20P8, 20R8, 20R6, 20R4, 20RP8, 20RP6, 20RP4, 20RS4, 20RS8, 20x4, 20x8, 19L8, 19R4, 19R6, 19R8, 16v8, 20v8, 22v10. This device will provide you with logic equations on above devices. Will not provide you with Jedec files. You must reduce the logic equations into a Jedec file before you can program a chip. The logic file is saved as an ABLE file. Price $2,000. Motorola Reader, for MC68HC705C8P, incl hardware & software, will only read older chip, will not read newer MC68HC705C8ACP chip. Will provide you with the program from a secured part. Can save file in Intel Hex, Motorola S, and a Binary image format. Price $1,200.

[goldfinder]

I do have quite a bit of experience with the PIC. I have programmed the 16F84 and 12F675 extensively. If someone can provide me some kind of starting point, like flowchart, finished circuit w/o PIC and some rough code I'd take a stab at it. I'd be a little slow as I have other projects but be glad to give it a try.

I cut my teeth on assembly code when minis came out and graduated to PICs as they are a piece of cake compared to a Honeywell 316 and PDP machines.

I am also not a dummy on digital circuit stuf and have a "lab".

Send me an email. One thing - the code would be open source (i.e. non-proprietary) so anyone can use it do don't get greedy. Basically what I'd want out of it is a working detector so someone else provide the HW and I'll do the programming.

Goldfinder