Jeohunter - Visual Ground Scanner

[Marius]

Nokta and Jeo vs. OKM?

Hi, Funfinder!


Thank you for the very thorough reply and lots of useful information! That's really pity if the JeoHunter cannot really go 10 m deep! They indicate it in their information but probably it is only in ideal vacuum case with the double-decker bus or Boeing 747.

Well, excavator is unfortunately not an option - the area is about 5 hectares with numerous trees and even a pond on it, so digging it all up would take months. Otherwise I would have used it for a couple of hours, it would cost maybe a 100 bucks. But here is a need for more precise locating before going digging.

I thought about your advice and it seems a good idea to use some kind of ground scanning device. Which one would you recommend? I found OKM Cavefinder, which is a geoelectric device, which, as they claim, can go up to 40 m deep. What do you think about this one? The price is quite high, but it can map up to 1 600 sq m at a time (approx 40×40 m). Are there any other good machines that can do the same at a lower price?

Thanks in advance!

[Marius]

P.S. Nokta and Jeo vs. OKM

P.S. The surface where the search will be performed is very bumpy - up to +/-10 m in about 5 m, so the slopes are even sharper than 45 degrees. Will OKM CaveFinder work in these conditions? Any hints?

Have a great weekend!

[Marius]

Jeo News

Here is the answer from Jeo:

No, a successor to the JeoHunter (Dual of Basic) will not come in a short time.
Makro Detector has been working for more than 25 years of improvements and works with the latest technology.

Does anyone have different or more precise information, for example, on what they mean by "short time"? I asked about 6 months or so.

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

I don't know how good this OKM CaveFinder works
but be careful with OKM, that company is selling also
some kind of Long Range Locators (Bionic ist the name of those)
for very high price (10.000 Euros) that are not scientific tested
or proven working.

There exists also other cavity or geological abnormal structure
detectors - some of those work with long wave radio frequency,
others work like seismographs.


The bumpy 45° terrain would reduce the depth for the Jeohunter, too.

The theoretical distance of 10m is huge metals object only and if
in air or very long ago buried. Cavity has not so much contrast factor
in ground as metal. Cavity could be confused with fluctuating
mineralization, too. The best cavity detection you would get
at a very plain field surface with constant mineralization.

But not on a mountains slope with stones and trees and stuff
where already the distance: surface -> bedrock can vary alot.


I don't know where you have asked for the Jeohunter successor,
but perhaps they didn't knew more about this topic or they can't
tell about it because this is at development stage at the moment.

Do you have asked them if the 1m coil could detect your special
deep cavity location, too or if the new model can?
The new model can only do this if it comes with a much larger
coil than the actual 1m.

The best method would be to find the entrance of this cave.
Like collapsed very old mines you may find some funnels or
craters near or above that location. Take pictures from some
distance and analyze them - you may find it that way, too.


Good Luck!

Oh, by the way: You may find other helpful info here:
http://www.geotech1.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11

[satdaveuk]

Hi Marius and all
The draw back with automatic ground balance is that while searching in iron infested sites the detector starts seeing the iron as the ground which renders the machine to near toy type.
The reason for this is because iron and ground minerals read - numbers that are similar so they can easily get mixed up.
The advantage of manual ground balance speaks for itself because you can adjust as required.
Ideally what you want is manual ground balance with auto trac which is constanly reading the ground and displaying figures on the VDI display so you know if your running optium settings, then you can either manually correct or move to auto but with your ground setting that you personaly have checked, and put into play.

Regards
Dave

[Marius]

Thanks, Funfinder and Dave, for your very useful comments! And sorry for the long silence - I was travelling without internet access.

I inquired Makro about their new products once more and here is what I received in reply:


Makro Detector was founded in 1986 and it's one of the leading manufactures of the "Professional Metal Detectors" in Turkey.

Makro Detector has over 20 years research and development experience in metal detectors development.
So we have been working on the new models but it’s not going to be much more deeper than Jeohunter. They will be mostly hobby detectors and ready in the next year.


To my next e-mail, I received the following reply:


I cannot say anything about the characteristics of the new models.

When it’s ready I’ll let you know.
Probably they thought I am Nokta or some other competitor and did not want to reveal the Big Secret.

By the way, Makro has also a bionic system, which is called Jeotara, it looks even more suspiscious than the one by OKM. But the bionic systems work fine - I am using one bionic machine for health purposes and it always amazes me with its effects, precision and reliability. So I really believe in this technology - supposedly we will see more and more of bionic systems in different areas in the future. The problem with OKM bionic system is that it does not tell the depth or the size of the object, so it can be 5 cm or 10 m, otherwise it is fine.


Regarding cavity or geological abnormal structure detectors - do you have any suggestions, which machines to prefer? I would highly appreciate any information. There are many producers but not so much feedback on how their equipment works.

Thanks in advance!


Marius

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

nice coincidence, I also was at region without internet for a couple of days.

Well - Nokta and Makro Detector are really competitors who wanna overtrump themselves -
but the info you got has nothing to do with industrial secrets - it is just a question of
electromagnetical limits by coilsize, contrast-factor and usage-complexity.

A detector with to high requirements to the enduser concerning weight and
technical knowledge is not that easy to sell as those "switch on and find treasures"-MDs.
Nokta formerly also produced those very deep detectors but now has switched to the
more common know stuff - personally I think that was a step into the wrong direction
because there are 100s of MDs with almost the same features, depths etc.


I'm sorry Marius but so far I have no idea what would be the best method to detect
this very deep cavity at all. It depends how many thousands of bucks you wanna
spent and which technic you prefer.

Perhaps you can find an exploration-team to hire for 1 day that already comes with
the needed equipment. You may use infrared-temperature-detection methods to
find the warm or cold air coming out of the cavity. You may find a geologist that
can analyze the structure of the rock-formation there. If you are lucky the cavity
is not that deep but just 3-4m - in that case the Jeohunter with 1m coil may find it -
but because of the problematically terrain this would need much experience first you
don't have already. It also depends how homogenous the mineralization there is.

You even may find one of those "talented" dowsing-walkers that can "feel" the
cave by his special abilities - but I wouldn't invest much hope into that option.

At the very first you have to be absolutly shure that there is this cavity and it
really contains those treasures. Otherwise all your efforts would be just a huge
waste of time, money and energy.

It really is a big question of how much money is worth to give away to be still
rich from what you may find and get in return. You could rent a special oil-drller
to check out the ground every 50 Meters incl. small camera to look down but
these are very expensive investments.

If it's that deep you need at least a small excavator anyway so if you buy
it you also could make probe-diggings and look out for special signs that may
lead you to the right track. Best thing would be to get old maps or fotografs
with nearer info about the exactly location of the entrance.

If this cave once was open and penetratable by humans there must exist
some clues or visible hints about how that entrance has been blocked.
As example huge blocks of rock or unusual floor signs.

I guess the most important thing for now is to gather as much information
you can get about that special site - trustworthy and reliable information -
no tales or old fancy stories where nobody can prove the truth anylonger.


For finding special detectors you should look for geophysical devices -
like those that are used to find hidden mineral or oil ressources.
There exists some middlepriced (5000-10000 dollars) ground-detectors
like multi coil systems where each coil can be placed 100 meters away
from each other but I'm not shure those will work in your "mountain-site situation".

You can compare this with finding hidden rooms inside the cheops-pyramid
and you may heard how complex, heavy and unsuccessful this task still is.

However, you may find a working solution and I wish you good luck for this.
Real treasure-hunters always need or like big challenges!

[kt315]

JEOHUJ-SPAM. Leave me OFF, idiots! Forget my addresses! such'i deti, kak vy dostali vseh svoim obmanom i debilizmom!

[Funfinder]

Did they ask you to become a reseller *huh huh*
Well, I have nothing to do with it but thanx for the russian info.

The Jeohunter especially with its 1m coil is for special tasks
and alot people aprpreciate this.

This is not one of those 100s allmost all the same usual
MDs or all that almost the same "good" working homebrew stuff.

[Marius]

Hello again after some silence - I finally received my JeoHunter and... it was a big disappointment. Device is very unstable and is not able to locate almost anything at all. Especially cavities. Based on 2 days of field tests I wrote down the 10 following questions, which indicate the problems I encountered with the device, and if any of you can help me to find solutions to these, I will be very grateful. I suspect there might be something wrong with the device, but it could also be that I just need to get used to it. But really - ground balancing the machine about every 5 meters even in the woods is a bit too much.

The main questions for me are:

1. When doing the ground balancing, I hold the search coil steady at 45 cm, however, ground balancing indicator at the right of the screen keeps jumping up and down above in same location – is it normal? Shouldn’t it be either + or - steadily?
2. Sometimes ground balancing cannot be done at all: I balance it to +201, which is maximum, however, it still indicates that the ground balancing value should be raised – why is it this way and how can it be fixed?
3. When I change the ground balancing values in another location from +201 to +50, there is no difference in indication of ground balancing on the screen – the device does not show that the ground balancing value should be changed – is it sign of malfunctioning if it accepts such a wide range of balancing values without noticing the difference and alerting of it?;
4. When I find a place where the device can be ground balanced, and I start exploring, device malfunctions again – we go forward (we hold the coil from two sides), it detects the metal target well, then we walk backwards and it detects again, however, when we return to the starting point along the same trajectory (with the only difference that we are walking backwards), the oscillograph is not at 0 any more as it was initially, when we balanced the machine there, but can be around the upper dotted line (+50%), where it stays and keeps beeping even when we stop at the starting point for longer time. When wethen repeat the trajectory and return to the same point, the oscillograph finishes around some other value. When the path is repeated, it stops at a different level again, and it stays and beeps there while we are not moving, etc. – is it normal and what is the cause of it?
5. Even when ideally ground balanced, oscillograph keeps fluctuating around zero when we are walking – is it due to mineralisation of soil, which is varying to some minimal extent basically every mm, or it is the failure of the machine?
6. Most of the time, even on local football stadium with no pipes or metal underneath, the device indicates valuable metals – 50%+, is it normal and where does it come from?
7. Device absolutely does not detect cavities – even when we walk over the sewage pipes, which are rather big (about 1 m in diameter) and located near the surface (about 1-1,5 m deep), the device does not show anything – what could be the reason for it?
8. Oscillograph stops and starts drawing the line randomly – when we walk, the line stops from time to time, and when we stand, it keeps running and beeping around some value – what is the reason for that? Should the device detect movement and produce oscillograph line and beep only when moved, or it does this randomly, sometimes when moved and sometimes when standing still? What does it depend on? Sometimes it just stops at some random value, not around or even close to 0 and remains there for 10 meters.
9. Oscillograph changes its values when kept steady at the same point – not much, but still a bit, is it also normal?
10. The device gives the message on blue screen: “Search coil failure detected. Restart the device.” about every 5 minutes, however, when the search coil is reconnected, the message is not repeated any more – is it normal as well and what does it mean or what is it caused by?

I packed the coil in a huge plastic bag for easier cleaning, maybe it is disturbing the device?

Or is the temperature too low - around 0 degrees Celsius? What is the minimum temperature it should be used at?

Right now I cannot say I am very delighted with the device - it is also extremely uncomfortable to use since the keys are not illuminated and the bag keeps closing the screen, but these are minor issues. If it is possible to get this thing work, it would be great. Otherwise it is just an empty investment.

This is my experience. Can anyone comment on that? Thanks in advance!

[Funfinder]

Hi Marius,

Sorry you have problems with the Jeohunter but infact this is an extremly powerful
metaldetector and the best deep-seeking versatile MD in this world and so I hope
I'll get you started somehow.

This detector is a non-motion detector that makes it about 25% more sensitive
compared to motion detectors with same coil size and it is totally immune against
all kind of electro-smog, but it is not that easy to handle in the beginning or
at rough, steep, stony, bushy or highmineralic sites.

But this detector is high valuable to scan huge areas of flat land, especially if using
the 1m coil or the whirlwind-search method and to find the precious deep targets that
the usual 20-35cm coil detectors never will find!

This detector has been tested already for 3 years by me and other serious treasurehunters
and it was proved as a great special task detector! Of course not for beginners or
gold-nugget hunters, but for the very deep and special finds.


About your questions:
For me it seems your coil (which one are you using?) is damaged or one of the cables or
contacts is broken. Usually you will never get a coil error warning after just 5 minutes.

For groundbalancing you have to understand the principle behind.
The reason for ground elimination is to compensate the electromagnetical field the
mineralic etc. elements inside of the soil creates.
Because high mineralic ground can mask the metal targets.

But this is a nonmotion detector therefore the ground-balance only works within
a limited range of distance coil to the ground-setting. The higher mineralized the ground
and the larger the coil the more carefully the coil-ground distance has to be coordinated
or the more slow the coil must be moved if its distance is very close to the ground
and if the detectors sensitivity is set to very high.

But this is the only way to get the most possible depth out of a detector at all.

Most of the common detectors are comfortable to use (lightweight, small coils,
motion circuit incl. automatic ground balance, low power consumption etc.) but
at the cost of depth and vulnerability by electromagnetical interference that can
make alot detectors totally unusable under certain circumstances.

This is the whole "controversy" about this detector and persons that are used
to the "simple" stuff can't or won't understand especially if the needs of them
are fully satisfied by the "usual" detectors.

One simple example:
The XP Deus with its small 20cm coil will be great for goldnuggets or coins at
at a very small well known limited area (10 x 10 meters = 100 square meter)
but not on a battlefield that has a size of 500 x 500 meters or at a desert
with old ruins or sunken buildings deep into the sand. For such tasks you
need detectors like the Jeohunter otherwise it will take ten times or longer
the amount of time incl. all the additional expense that could come in play.


I don't know if you're still here and reading, Marius, because I was one week
off so I couldn't answer earlier, but if so I suggest first you will make some
tests at home or in your garage or garden so we can be shure the coil is
undamaged and everything works at usual:

Put the detector on a wooden table incl. the coil, switch it on, set the
ground balance to zero and the sensitivity to 70% and then test how
stable the detector remains if you do nothing and next try to check out
from what distance the coil will detect metal objects or "cavity objects"
like mineralic stones, bricks or hotrocks.

After you have tested this and because this text now already is quite
long I may answer the special points of your 10 questions the next time
if we have more information.

If you don't wanna lose any time and the coil error persists you better
check out your dealer to exchange the coil with a flawless working one.

Good luck.

[tabarki]

Dear Funfinder,
i just got the Jeohunter 3d, i think i am having some trouble using it, would you please give me some advise? my e-mail is [email protected]
Many thanks
Bechir

[Funfinder]

Hi Bechir

Congratulations to your new detector, at the really interesting sites you can find the deepest and most hidden treasures with it,
but this is a professional and very sensitive tool (the device is built tough, but the signals are sensitive) and you may need some experience first.

Please ask your questions here in this forum because this is very important for overall understanding and for other Jeohunter users.
btw. this thread already contains almost every answer to every possible question you may have.

In principle the best working progress is like with any detector:
First start with in air tests, low sensitivity and all-metal mode and work your way forward getting more and more used to the signals
until you can distinguish even the faintest good signals from bad ones.

This world is huge and I know it from my own experience since a long time - without a huge detector and coil, treasurehunters never will come
even close to the largest amount of the hidden stuff!

There even exists some ideas to create a very lightweight, 2 feet (65cm) long hand-heldable Jeohunter coil for even faster and yet deeper recovery!
With such a coil a person really can handle large sites, battlegrounds, deserts, lost cities, stone-temples, tombs and much more that contains the precious stuff.

Good luck!

[Orbit]

I'm sorry I have not read all Do the this device pi or vlf Balancing inductive detector ?

[tabarki]

Dear Funfinder,

Dear Funfinder,
many thanks for your quick reply, is it normal that the jeohunter detectes steel as gold?
i manipulated the jeohunter as per the instructions but still having a big confusion since even in detecting building metallic structure i have GOLD after scanning
your help is needed all the videos and user manuels were not helpfull
your soonest reply is highly appreciated
Bechir

Hi Bechir

Congratulations to your new detector, at the really interesting sites you can find the deepest and most hidden treasures with it,
but this is a professional and very sensitive tool (the device is built tough, but the signals are sensitive) and you may need some experience first.

Please ask your questions here in this forum because this is very important for overall understanding and for other Jeohunter users.
btw. this thread already contains almost every answer to every possible question you may have.

In principle the best working progress is like with any detector:
First start with in air tests, low sensitivity and all-metal mode and work your way forward getting more and more used to the signals
until you can distinguish even the faintest good signals from bad ones.

This world is huge and I know it from my own experience since a long time - without a huge detector and coil, treasurehunters never will come
even close to the largest amount of the hidden stuff!

There even exists some ideas to create a very lightweight, 2 feet (65cm) long hand-heldable Jeohunter coil for even faster and yet deeper recovery!
With such a coil a person really can handle large sites, battlegrounds, deserts, lost cities, stone-temples, tombs and much more that contains the precious stuff.

Good luck!