IGSL

[Jerry]

This should do it.

http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/sprint-layout.html

[ivconic]

May I ask which PCB software has the .lay extension?
Thanks in advance.
Andy
PS Will you be talking to Silverdog?

It is Sprint Layout 5.0 as Jerry pointed.
Schematics are done in ExpressSch (part of ExpressPCB).
For last IGSL update i just draw pcb in SL5 and yet didn't updated schematic. Will do soon..

[der_fisherman]

Many thanks again Ivconic for that update.

I was also having some thoughts yesterday evening about some way of repaying your stirling efforts in achieving this very useful expansion to this particular metal detector, making it (to my mind at least) a worthwhile "optional Extra" and one I would like to have personally.

May I be so rude as to make a couple of suggestions, that would need to be agreed or modified by primarily by Ivconic himself, or maybe he has a better idea.....

Dear Ivconic,

these are only suggestions/thoughts, they may not appeal to you in the slightest, but I was trying to work out a way to repay you in a small way for your ideas and new implementation. But I am a fairly new person on this Forum and I may be thought to be rude or "forward" in "jumping in" without being more careful of anyone's feelings, sorry to all concerned if you feel that way. I am in no way offended myself if that's your take.

I have been around metal detectors, mostly self built, since about 1960's, that is my only claim to fame, so to say!!! I have only bought three in all that time....

My idea is that Ivconic licenses his design to say someone like Silverdog (if Silverdog agrees of course, I am assuming a lot, but Silverdog is a good supplier for such items it would appear) or similar, to produce the PCBs, keeping up with updates, maybe he sells a full kit including the PCB, and that person/company takes simultaneously a license fee of say extra US$5 or equivalent for example, for each PCB sold, which is passed back to Ivconic in Serbia on a regular basis via a currency transfer.

Also, anyone who copies the design from here on the great pages of Geotech (which makes such ideas possible) for example, should, all on his own, would be asked to pay Ivconic the same amount, via PayPay comes to mind as the best way for many of us, but a normal currency transfer should also be possible.

I am sure that most here would be more than happy to do that.

Warning, I do not personally see that putting $5 in an envelope and sending it as being a good idea, for money in letters is I believe easily detected and pocketed......

Maybe Ivconic could "collect" email addresses for all who buy/make a PCB and send him the license fee, he could send an occasional email to ONLY those people for any interesting tips/tricks that he has ferreted out. Which might help to keep the honour bound ones to send the cash!!!

Those are my personal thoughts as I (and many others here) are very fond of Ivconic and his clever brain, and even if he did not design the original machine, he has made a seemingly good job of updates and useful changes I feel.(But I am fully prepared to be wrong if Ivconic or anyone decides otherwise)

At the end of the day, I do feel that the only way to recognise such help and innovation as Ivconic has brought to this design is a financial one. US$5 will not make anyone poor, nor will it make Ivconic rich either....therefore I do not think that Ivconic should give up his day job as I am sure it will only be a small trickle of money, but better than nothing I hope.

Please now feel free to hit me over the head if you think I am totally off base.....

Happy Days from

Andy

[Qiaozhi]

As Ivconic said, shipping to and from Serbia is ridiculously expensive. For example for a blank PCB to be sent from the UK to Serbia would cost £25 using ParcelForce Global Value, with no tracking, no insurance, and 8-10 days delivery. For a completely built detector, the cost to send this from Serbia to the UK escalates to £139.08 by DHL Worldwide Import (via a very cheap door-to-door courier service). I don't think Ivconic will become a worldwide exporter of metal detectors any day soon. Hopefully things will change in the future if/when Serbia joins the EU. However, with Greece, Ireland and Portugal's economic woes, this could be some time.

[der_fisherman]

I already fully understood that completely.

Ivconic himself told me in a previous post, that you yourself may not have read, which is why I am suggesting exactly what I suggested!! That first post was from BEFORE Ivconic posted the updated PCB infos for the latest developements.

In my previous post to Ivconic, what I suggested was that Ivconic works with a company like SilverDog, which is IN THE EU, to produce the "wares" and get a currency transfer from time to time as a license fee.....no exporting of parts or machines, because he lives I believe in Serbia.

May I suggest that you read my previous post very carefully again! As just "springing" over a post gives an impression (not necessarily correct) of the contents. I was very explicit....and I was not suggesting what you are talking about, not in the slightest.....

Happy days

Andy

[WM6]

In my previous post to Ivconic, what I suggested was that Ivconic works with a company like SilverDog, which is IN THE EU, to produce the "wares" and get a currency transfer from time to time as a license fee.....

Fair idea, Andy, I am sure that Qiaozhi support it, as most of us too. But I'm not sure that it is also feasible. It depend on general interest in IGSL kits or PCBs and silverdogs (or some others) willings to join such responsibility.

Maybe main problem for ivconic is, that is hart to him to get PayPal account, which can very simplify the decision of someone for symbolic support his open development for community.

[Qiaozhi]

I already fully understood that completely.

Ivconic himself told me in a previous post, that you yourself may not have read, which is why I am suggesting exactly what I suggested!! That first post was from BEFORE Ivconic posted the updated PCB infos for the latest developements.

In my previous post to Ivconic, what I suggested was that Ivconic works with a company like SilverDog, which is IN THE EU, to produce the "wares" and get a currency transfer from time to time as a license fee.....no exporting of parts or machines, because he lives I believe in Serbia.

May I suggest that you read my previous post very carefully again! As just "springing" over a post gives an impression (not necessarily correct) of the contents. I was very explicit....and I was not suggesting what you are talking about, not in the slightest.....

Happy days

Andy

On the contrary, I fully understood your post ... and my reply did not quote your diatribe, as it was not related in any way.

I posted the information, concerning the transport of goods to/from Serbia, to emphasise Ivconic's previous message about the outrageously expensive shipping costs. Please read my posts more carefully before making assumptions. If I do not quote another post, then it is not related to the content my own post.

[ivconic]

Thank You very much for Your supportive attitude Der Fisherman! I appreciate that much, indeed!
Situation at my country is... as it is, i am not able to change a thing. So, considering all, i can only accept that and keep moving on.
So i was thinking; if i can not make things "commercial" - than i will rather share them with people with same interests.
Geotech is best possible place to do that, all the colleagues are already here!
I don't feel that i am "giving" here much, because i also "took" from here much in the past. During last several years i learned much from here. Without sharing there is no progress.
So do not feel obligate to me - but to Geotech community here.
Of course, money is never enough, but money was last on my mind each time i started to evolve some idea and invested some work. Enthusiasm and love upon this hobby was always on the first place.
Our dear friend Qiaozhi is very well informed already about situation here, because we had a lot conversations so far via emails and private messages. WM6 is even better informed because he is my ex compatriot and lives pretty close to me. Also had a lot of conversations with him too. As a matter of fact; WM6 is my closest colleague here, with difference that his is more lucky than me, because living in EU country!
So.. if Silverdog wants to make series of IGSL pcb's - he is very welcome by me. But feel no obligations and have no worries upon money and "licence" , because all i done here is plain enthusiasm and good will.
Besides... IGSL in roots is Tesoro Golden Sabre. IGSL idea was my but crucial "touch" was made by Qiaozhi... so... who own it?!
Obvious proof that sharing and collaborating has no alternative!
Again, thanks MUCH for supportive attitude and good intentions!
Regards!

[der_fisherman]

I understand your predicament, I visit occasionally for holidays in Serbia, Montenegro and Croatia, but the last time was in 2003, the very hot summer, too hot for my wife, so after a week, we had to leave!! It was only 36°C in Germany, really cool!!

We have visited the area several times, both before and after the wars that you Guys had. We are campers (caravan) and like moving around seeing the sights....we were always made most welcome everywhere.

I think its really big of you to "give" yours and Qiaozhi's developments to this blog, your work on this great MD (and the work of others) to us all. For myself I am really happy to be able to (eventually) build such a great project and really looking forward to starting.

I really liked what you did with the two diodes on the audio output, simple yet clever!!

May I ask Silverdog if he would be so kind and to have the PCBs made, or would you rather do that yourself? Its probably better coming from you directly, I have looked at both schematics, but it is for me difficult to judge as to exactly what changes have been made to the PCB. Or maybe you know another company better suited?

If he doesn't, then I must do it all myself.....maybe I can get say10 made and sell some of the rest to others here on Geotech.....

By the way, do you feel that an "older" TGSL PCB can be easily re-used and converted to an IGSL, or should I wait for the "proper thing"?, my personal idea is to wait till a finally revised PCB is fully available (as you appear to have already done!).....because I hate cutting a project about!!

Also, are you finally happy with the PCB right now and the component count/values, or will it take a bit longer to be really sure?

By the way, if you had a PayPal account (or similar), those who wished to, could still contribute some money if they wished. I for one would once I get a PCB and the components (as a kit hopefully!) from someone like SilverDog for example......push, push!

Many, many thanks again from a "Fan" of Metal Detectors and Detecting, I can build and setup MDs, have done it for over 40 years, but not design, improve and change them like you Guys do!!

regards

Andy

[der_fisherman]

If the same infos are sent twice (or more) to someone, its the same as saying they are slow in learning or similar, e.g. extremely bad manners.....

Now I have had to send the same message twice to you.......

Happy Days

Andy

[ivconic]

"...May I ask Silverdog if he would be so kind and to have the PCBs made..."

Yes of course, ask him.

Last pcb i posted is the one i would suggest you to make. Nothing is perfect, always can be done much better. But for now i do not intend to change it. Maybe in winter i will consider improving audio stage. But even so, the present pcb will stay unchanged. So any eventual mod on audio will take place on another pcb, which will be added on existing one. I am not saying that am not satisfied with present audio - it is very good also, but i am thinking to add more tones at both blocks later. I am considering use of NE556 there... will see. But for now this present pcb is "final" as i am concerned. So if you want to make it - talk to Silverdog. I saw his pcbs, really good work!

[silverdog]

IGSL Boards

Ivconic - I think I speak for many when I say great work and thank you for sharing it with us, you are an inspiration for many

You said yourself geotech is a forum for sharing and a collective of many great minds, if only everyone was as generous and honest, it would be a better world, and we would have more and better projects to build !!

I have no problem making some boards, however which do I make ?

You suggest the last version for the minelab musketeer coil - I fear the cost of the coils is too high for most hobby builders ?

What does everyone think ? I can do both but don't see the point if everyone wants the same version

Silverdog

[ivconic]

Agree; Minelab coils can be bit more expensive for a typical hobbyst budget. Some people can afford and some others can not.
So it is good to check majority opinion - i agree.
Silverdog, do collect orders before you decide which version to make.
In case majority still wants to make last version and most of them can not find original Minelab coil - there is a way to make it!

Already known 255x137mm "D" form (for 27cm DD coil):
- TX=1mH, 42 to 45 windings, wire 0.5 to 0.55mm
- RX=14.7mH, 165 to 175 windings, wire 0.22 to 0.25mm

Resistance at IGSL is not issue, as it is at Musketeer (wont oscillate if TX is over 2.5ohms) - so do not worry about it.

Both "D" shaped coils are shielded with Faraday cage. Both cages are connected together to TX ground lead (in coil) .
Cable from coil to detector is double coaxial (as on original TS coils).
Rx leads are "hot" and "shield" - but that "shield" is not connected with main GND (shields) in coil housing.
Also RX "shield" is not connected on pcb gnd - it is connected just to inverting input of LM833.
Coils are nulled to have minimum possible residual voltage (measured on original TS 1000).

I am suggesting last IGSL version and Minelab coils (or copies) because that version is showing really better performances.

But also there are number of people who already made TGS/TGSL and suitable coil for it.
So those people can just make first IGSL version and use already made coil for TGS/TGSL.

So ... it is hard to predict numbers of which pcb would more likely to be wanted!
That's why is smarter to start some sort of voting and collect majority opinion.
Cheers!

[der_fisherman]

ISGL

(While I was writing this Ivconic has also answered and given me a lot of hope that I can actually make the ISGL and also make my own coils as well!! Thanks Ivconic, really great!)

Firstly, Silverdog I totally agree with your comments.

Secondly, thanks for jumping in here, we need you! You were most kind and informative when I contacted you on your excellent web site recently, thanks. I am hoping that you can make us the PCBs and particularly at least for me personally, the kits as well....(Edited later:- I am assuming that you will make the PCBs etc, if yes, please book me a PCB+kit, I will transfer the money instantly once you let us know what a kit will cost with postage to Germany. PayPal makes it even easier.....for everyone! but there are other methods! Just let me know)

Some thoughts (slightly edited due to Ivconic's answer!):-

I personally will be making my own coils for either preferably the ISCL, or the TSGL, I am not buying any coils (pensioner!). Also I like setting up such coils, done it at least 4 times over the last 40 years, maybe even more...but I am lucky in that I have multimeters, 'scopes, frequency counter, Capacitance and inductance meters etc etc and many years of exposure to electronics as a hobby, which does help a lot!!))

I do like the way Ivconic's version (ISGL) runs after seeing the Video, I have never owned a machine like that.....but I fully accept that a even a well made DIY coil will probably not achieve that last cm of depth that a professionally made one will (Hopefully I find so much money that I can afford to buy a commercial one later!!, joke!)

I am also hoping that at worst it only involves a component change for DIY coils, maybe a few extra pads to allow simple changes to be made to the size/value of parts - hoping for that ardently!!! (The recent post from Ivconic implies to me only that I must make DIY coils as near as possible to his recent description......)

[Orbit]

Vrlo dobro , cestitam .