blisstool ltc64x v2i

[Funfinder]

Damn! It was embarassing!
Very stupid situation for promoter!
I can not laugh because i was in same position once and do know the feeling!
It's old "good" Murphy's law!
Speaking of Blisstool; i guess real truth is somewhere in the middle.
Like i said; just another simple DIY project, but this time very smart promoted and advertised.
I don't recall neither one hand made so far that rised so much dust as this one! Bravo!
Soon when all this fuzz calm down, maybe in just next few months; we will probably see here brand new one argue and spitting on some another new almighty and top secret metal detector!
It is always like that.
Calm down folks, all those argues and offends for NOTHING. Sun will rise again, new day will come, new almighty diy's will appear.
Month by month, year by year... we already saw here many similar situations.
Right now i don't even remember some "brands" and names which had same appearance and later same destiny.
I bet nobody will remember this next year! Wanna bet?

At least an objective posting but some points are doubtful:

> Speaking of Blisstool; i guess real truth is somewhere in the middle.

No, the real truth is not somewhere in the middle, it is at the same
point that alot experienced Blisstool owners have described it !!!

We are not so stupid to lose 50% of power, performance and detection
depth to those evil opinion spamer who have nothing else to do the
whole day than writing s**t and provocating honest people!

The middle is no argument at all.

Kid 1: "Mommy, I wan't that yellow lollipop!"
Kid 2: "Mommy, I wan't that red lollipop!"
Mommy: "Quiet, kids, here you have an orange Lolly!"

Your DIY self statement is just a diffamatory view of things
that would apply to alot MDs. The Blisstool is built and sold
already for at least 4-5 years inclunding lots of feedback
and improvement replies from customers and resellers so you
can't compare it with garage homemade do-it-yourself detectors.


And finally please all stop this useless argument:

"The Blisstool is not usable at highly iron infested areas."

It may be not good working 50m close to strong low and high
voltage power lines but of course it discriminates very well.
But not for beginners. Because the audio signal contains
slighty differences and there is a difference if the beep
is very short or already interupted at disc setting 2 or
at disc setting 3. There are also differences because of
the soil conditions, depth and shape of the object. Btw.
the 11'' coil (28cm) for shure will work better at such iron
areas than the 15'' (38cm). And treasurehunters who really
want to find the max. should be careful to discriminate at all!

[sinclairuser]

little children

right lets get somethings cleared up ANY metal detector is only as good as its operator! fact
hand build detectors are only as good as the components used/skills of engineer! ie a pi home build done with class A japanese/western components is superior to one built with crappy class B chinese/taiwanese components (yes i think taiwan stuff is crap) the same goes for retail mds too just because it costs two grand does not mean its better than one costing 500 quid there is far more to it than that!
skill of operator
soil condition
depth of target
type of metal
build quality
are all far more important than its brand name what it cost or indeed how many knobs/bells and whistles it has
if you went to one of my fields and pulled out a deus or minelab it would not work any better that a lot of cheaper mds after all not all iron is scrap on an iron age site at 8-14 inches deep the more expensive mds dont give enough of an edge to warrant the cost!
as for blisstool if thats your thing fair play but the majority of those knobs only need to be trimpots inside and set once they are there to sucker you in for me an adams ax777 is the md for me but each to his own

[ivconic]

"...Your DIY self statement is just a diffamatory view of things
that would apply to alot MDs. The Blisstool is built and sold
already for at least 4-5 years inclunding lots of feedback
and improvement replies from customers and resellers so you
can't compare it with garage homemade do-it-yourself detectors...."

What's wrong with that?
Nothing wrong with diy detecors!
I respect more some diy detectors than majority of originals, to tell you the truth.
...
Yes, truth is always somewhere in the middle.
I saw several photos of Bliss inside. Nothing there impresive, just ordinary diy detector.
It doesn't mean it should be bad, either good. It was just an observation, not judgement.
Let's wait Carl's report, ok?
I don't know the other guys/promoters and youtube clips shooters, but i do know Carl and am sure he will give us here most honest report, so let's wait him for now.
(Although, MikiPn is having Bliss for much longer than most of you here. He is my neighbor. So i do know what am i talking about. According to collected exepriences so far: Bliss is total crap, as i said before, but i didn't wanted to start new argue here. But, now when you insist so much.....)

[ivconic]

Truth is always somewhere in the middle.
Let me explain this.
In each possible argue in history, so far, there were two sides.
Oposite sides.
One side is strictly pro and other side is strictly contra.
Real elementary truth is ALWAYS in the middle!
Bliss is diy detector and nothing is wrong with that.
I don't take term "diy" as offensive but just as observation.
I am diy'er for the most of my life. If i was about to offend somebody with "diy" term - than i would offend myself at first place!
Looking at photos of Bliss i don't see neihter slightest traces of any real fabrication! So?
I see hand made detector, so called "diy" or do it yourself.
Nothing wrong in that.
I can only applaude to that as also a long term diy'er.
...
Let's analyze the facts here.
MikiPn is having Bliss. He is very experienced user for long time. I know him also for long time.
I do trust him. He is close to me, my neighbor.
If he tells me Bliss is crap - than i do not argue, because it is truth for me.
I watched dozen and more Youtube clips on Bliss, so far.
I saw NO quality in it's behavior.
All what i saw in those clips is horrible erratic behavior and pretty misty promotions and adverts.
From my whole life experience with metal detectors i can only pull conclusion that Bliss is total crap .
However, even a crap like that can be used with success on some sites and under some conditions.
Used on rich site with a lot of nice finds; Bliss will satisfy user and user will be very happy with it. On such sites any crap will do.
That's why is truth always in the middle.
Cheers!

P.S.
Let me extend this further:
Not to be understood as "one side promoter", for me, crap also are: Golden Mask series, NRG series and all other numerous "brands" that were came recently on market. Crap is also Wave and SMW. A descent bit of crap is also my IGSL. All those are CRAP simply becuase do not satisfy some elementary fabrication standards. Those can be used on some sites with much of success, those can make user satisfy and happy - but all those are still CRAP.
Am i clear now?

When i see some crazy dude to compare a CRAP with machines like Explorer, Spectra or Deus... all what i do is LAUGH!
When i hear same dude to claim that CRAP is better than Explorer, Spectra or Deus... all what i can think is that; dude is 100% crazy or unfair promoter...
Simple as that.

[Davor]

In each possible argue in history, so far, there were two sides.
Oposite sides.

It usually seem so, however, like with false dilemma there may be some covert agendas thrown in. For example, some soda brand users argue that a manufacturer screwed up their favourite drink, and a producer argues back that caffeine is OK for them, thus hiding the fact that aspartame content is very not OK for them. Eventually argument about caffeine prevails (making opponents silly) and real culprit goes scot free.

[WM6]

I bet nobody will remember this next year! Wanna bet?

Sure not, in 2012 we face the end of the World.

[Qiaozhi]

Sure not, in 2012 we face the end of the World.

Well ... if it turns out to be wrong, there are plenty of other dates to choose from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...alyptic_events

[WM6]

Well ... if it turns out to be wrong, there are plenty of other dates to choose from.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...alyptic_events

Isaac Newtons 2060 is pretty acceptable for me. I am not willing to wait much more.

[Funfinder]

Hi ivconic,
respect to your honest and clear words.

The following is a short discourse of philosophy:

> Truth is always somewhere in the middle.

In the middle of what?
Of position 45° southwest of the truth and 45° northeast?

In that case the truth would be exactly in the middle but not
in a situation of "fantasy-fixpoints" or personal taste we have here!

Is a 20 year old whisky good or not?
The antialcoholic says this firewater was made by the devil and
the whisky connoisseur tells you it is the best stuff he ever had.

What is now the middle? That a 20 yo whisky from an absolute
view of things is the same good as water? Wrong.

Other example:
The air we all breathe. Just because someones house burned down
now oxygene is bad? Laughable! For 99.999999% of all people of this world
the oxygene in the air is very good (not for persons who wanna commit
suicide by suffocating) - there is no "truth" in the middle.

The Blisstool has very good detection rates as you can see below
and this means it is an average good detector!

btw. this world doesn't consists of only black versus white.

There is not just a pro and contra view of things, there exists
many different angles and facettes.
In totalitary regimes things are either pure good or only bad
but not in real life. Everything has two sides is definitive wrong,
everything has many sides!

And we should not mix up technical performance with personal
taste.

If your friend tells you for him the Blisstool is worth nothing
or "crap" this is just his opinion and it is wrong that you accept
this simple as a valid state of fact or "the truth".

If for him the Blisstool who is already at minimum 50% better
than the Fisher 1266x is crap I don't wanna know what MikiPn
would think about the Fisher, which has been in the 90's for
alot people one of the very best detectors worldwide!

And I fully respect the huge and valuable experience of many
years of working with metal detectors of Carl but this doesn't
mean the detection style fit's his personal taste or that he
already knows perfectly after a few hours how the Blisstool
must be "judged". But his decision to buy this detector shows
at least that he was interested and if he would have had any
suspects for shure he would saved his money.

This large thread has described already all pro and
contra factors concerning the Blisstool. If a person can't
stand so called "erratic" beeps he would not like the
critical adjustment sensitivity detection circuit the
Blisstool uses and would give it a thumbs down note
but this is personal taste and we have to focus on
technical strength! This is no "some people like sunny weather,
some people like fresh windy weather"-discussion.

This is a technical forum and we discuss how useful,
deep and electronical reliable a detector works.

And if the Blisstool looks like a "homemade" product
from the inside this says nothing. Because if I would have
a genious electronical idea that beats everything that
was before it doesn't count how many parts it uses and
how professional my circuit is assembled etc.

The world is not a black-white painting.

> In each possible argue in history, so far, there were two sides.
> Oposite sides.
> One side is strictly pro and other side is strictly contra.

This is not right, this is just a for luck seldom extremistic view of things!
And we must not forget that the only thing that a person defines
as good is a thing that is useful and good for this person.
Also called utilarism . Pragmatical own use.

People with their feelings, subjective interpretations, tastes and
"what is the most useful in my actual situation"-thinking are far
away from an objective or absolute view of things.

But we have electronic here and either "light on" or "light off" status.
With objective and reproducable test-results. There is no pro - contra
but a scale from 0 to 100 and we have the possibility to estimate
at what position the Blisstool has his rank!

Not the opinion counts but the performance.
Opinions like "the Blisstool is crap" or at rank 0 are not allowed
in this judgement! And therefore the Blisstool can not be at just
rank 50. If we compare the performance with other good detectors
on the charts below the Blisstool is at least at rank 85!

There is no middle and just black white pro contra in life, there
are personal and general values! And better always is better than
more worse. Health is better than illness, joy is better than pain.

Having good success with detecting super deep or small finds
is much better than no such finds or no metal detector at all!

And if you wanna judge or explore the sun, you should look at
the sun and not at the people with their opinions about the sun.

[WM6]

According present tests older LTC48 perform better than new LTC64V2.

Why then buy (and build) new one, if older perform better?

Is this true or it is about testers incompetency (if I paraphrase mikebg)?

Additional: seems al those testers never heard about gold nuggets or they hide something?

[ivconic]

Funfinder, that's exactly why i said truth is somewhere in the middle,
meaning exactly what you elaborated in your last post. World is not black and white, exactly.
Your truth is not necessarily my truth but we can meet somewhere in the middle and agree on some points. That's what i ment.
I don't dislike "hot" machines. XP Gold Max Power is one pretty "hot" machine and i like it much.
Deus can be very very "hot" machine and i simply adore it and it's "hot" behavior.
But Bliss seems is not "hot" machine. Bliss rather looks like damn erratic and instabile machine.
Huge difference between "hot" and erratic. It is so obvious on each video clip i saw so far.
So you should not mix "hot" and erratic.
Becuase "hot" machine will not give you neither one false signal - while Bliss seems is giving bedlam of falses all the time on each video i saw so far.
Ok, i'll tell you what: let's wait for Carl's report! Ok?

[ivconic]

According present tests older LTC48 perform better than new LTC64V2.

Why then buy (and build) new one, if older perform better?

Is this true or it is about testers incompetency (if I paraphrase mikebg)?

Additional: seems al those testers never heard about gold nuggets or they hide something?

WM6 if you look this table you will find out. Huge majority of people, while testing their detectors, tends to test Disc circuitry in junk rejection. So huge majority of tests fails on items like small gold nugget. Why? Look the table and you will find out why.
I hate to be taken as sarcastic, but somewhere earlier in this debate i explained the trick used on "beach&chain" video test.
Should i repeat my explanation again?
Ok. Explorer, Spectra and Deus didn't detect small golden chain simply because were adjusted to work in conventional Disc mode (such junk alloys as tiny chains are rejected by the rule). Even worse: Deus was in Wet beach program! I explained that before.
On other side; Bliss detected it. How? Simply; it's Disc circuitry is so poor and accepting "junk" targets, as it was that small and tiny golden chain!
Once Deus is adjusted more properly and to be less "restictive" - it can detect same golden chain much better and deeper than any other machine, except specialized nugget&gold hunters such are SD,GP and GPX Minelabs (hat down to those)!
So... dirty tricks! 90% of viewers are laics anyway, more or less.
So majority will not see the things at right "angle" and will accept some new "truths".
And that's what those video adverts are all about!

[Funfinder]

ivconic, i see you understood the point.

Infact a metal detector is just a tool, a resource.
Comparable with a wheel. That's why it always
depends on the person how successful any tool
can be used. If a woman likes to cuts wood with
a chainsaw, great, but perhaps she can't hande
it the same good as a lumberjack.

Everything has it's real quality and it's absolute
consistence. Like a mathematical value or variable:

5 fingers plus 5 fingers = 10 fingers.
There is no room for personal interpretations or opinions.
9 volts are 9 volts and detection depth remains detection depth.

It is always just the constellation, the connection and in our
case the personal skill and view of things that counts -
also while "interacting" with metal detectors.

The moon remains the same, it's just the right angle that
is needed to create a nice looking pearl-moon on earth.

And some people need years to "understand" something.
Absolutly. Maybe this sounds shocking or sad but it's true.


btw. thanx ivconic for the disc scala jpg.

The great advance of the Blisstool is that he has no
disc-cut off at all. It even detects single hot rocks with
a double beep. And with the manual ground balance
either set to 0 or to 10 you can get the most possible
sensitivity for rusty small iron stuff or for goldnuggets, too.


Well, I made a test for little stuff including video clip you can
find here:

http://www.qooy.com/files/ML0DU2PGLQ...64_airtest.rar
1min24, 24MB avi

Not for WM6 but to get a more complete picture and info-grade.
Btw. my secret detector is much more sensitive too this little
stuff than the Blisstool LTC64 v1 with 28cm / 11'' coil.

But it performed well, even though the test was made at a
location with really strong electromagnetical emissions.

In the video the threshold was set to just 4 because of the e-smog
but under real conditions and with trained ears you can work at
threshold 8 without problems.

Below the tested objects and used settings. In the video these objects
got (right to left because in the video I started with the right object) :

metalclip from sausage: 7cm
bolt from shovel: 7cm
rusty old shoe-nail: 7cm
special alloy screw (only light magnetic): 9cm
little soldering-tin nugget: 3cm

But I made this test after the video again at higher threshold
setting and of course with more erratic noise because of the
EMI situation but I could distinct the detection signals clearly
until the following values:

metalclip from sausage: 9cm
bolt from shovel: 9cm
rusty old shoe-nail: 10cm
special alloy screw (only light magnetic): 12cm
little soldering-tin nugget: 4cm

Fazit: for very small goldnuggets the coil is simply to large.
And in an area with alot highmineralized black sand the
Blisstool may lose detection depth.

> Because "hot" machine will not give you neither one false signal

Thats right if the sensitivity was set to leave the detector quiet
under usual search conditions. But at the costs of sensitivity!
The Garrett GTI 1500 doesn't give any wrong beeps at sens. 5
instead at over 9. But: at sens. 5 the depth is just the half.

Very clever electronical circuits can filter all kind of
electromagnetical interference sources so the pure metal
signal remains at a very high signal noise ratio (=sensitivity)
but the Blisstool is not that extremly noisy that those fantastic
depths would drown by electro-smog staccato as long as there
are no powerful EM field creating wires or devices nearby.

And btw. if a (mostly digital) detector remains completly
silent even at highest sensitivity setting I wouldn't buy it
because for shure you can't get the maximum depth out
of such a thing.

> Ok, i'll tell you what: let's wait for Carl's report! Ok?

Wait for what? For my newest mini-stuff-test? Just joking!

No, I'm really already eagerly if Carl got his Blisstool on
saturday hopefully and how he likes it. Because compared
with all those fastidous new treasure-hunters who think
a metal detector has to work like a light on-off switch he
has experience with all the analog old-school stuff and he
also may have worked with some Fisher 12xx and so he is
really qualified and professional enough to tell us his view.

The weight of the word of an authority or professional in this
world often is rated higher than the changing "opinions" of
the "crowd" as long their is no money and promotion etc.
involved but I'm shure this will be not the case.


Personally from all my experience with metal detecting for
many years plus concerning the technical power of the actual
available detectors I would give the Blisstool a rank of 85 points.

15 less than 100 because of the e-smog sensitivity, the bad
quality of the coils-pvc or what it is and the wrong design
concerning weight (no around the neck unit!).

But it is a very sensitive MD for very small stuff up to medium
very deep finds, it detects cavity and mineralic stones with
double beeps, it can find even smallest rusty iron or goldnuggets,
I like it if a MD offers many analog settings, I had the 1266x and
so the erratic noise is no problem for me, neither to hunt in
allmetal mode for best depth and last but not least the Li-ion
battery lasts for a very long time and the weight compared with
the depth power still is relative light and easy to handle.

For very deep and larger stuff I still would give the Jeohunter
100 points, but the standard coil is not really the best for very
little objects, even if it can find 1cm coins at 10cm.

The circle closes - every special task or work needs his specialized
tool and of course the person that can use it most successfully.

[MLR]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...67511418402432#

quality Blisstool coil housing

Dear slomobi, we all know that you speak the true - yes, the home where Blisstool manufacturer live and work was shaked down, yes, very bad situation for metaldetecting in BulgariaWhy? We all know why... Do you want to write more But, when you put this video for Blisstool's coil housing, you must be really honest and write that this video was made from Golden mask produces and published in his youtube channel with nickname NUFRII, yes - three years ago, but ...from him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5d0Fa4WRq0
The same coil housings are offered and sold through this forum - geotech - from some bulgarians and they are used from different producers in Bulgaria and not only You must not forget that Golden mask producers used the same coil housing in the past too
Are you the manufacturer of Golden mask metaldetectors or maybe his friend

[slomobi]

Funfinder you set a Blisstool with very high threshold sound with and metal detector will be unusable for many sites

Dear slomobi, we all know that you speak the true - yes, the home where Blisstool manufacturer live and work was shaked down, yes, very bad situation for metaldetecting in BulgariaWhy? We all know why... Do you want to write more But, when you put this video for Blisstool's coil housing, you must be really honest and write that this video was made from Golden mask produces and published in his youtube channel with nickname NUFRII, yes - three years ago, but ...from him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5d0Fa4WRq0
The same coil housings are offered and sold through this forum - geotech - from some bulgarians and they are used from different producers in Bulgaria and not only You must not forget that Golden mask producers used the same coil housing in the past too
Are you the manufacturer of Golden mask metaldetectors or maybe his friend

I am very good friend of the owner of the company that makes Golden Mask - Vladimir Lilov, even more, 15 years ago I was a partner with Lilov in the manufacture of metal detectors, but they were under another name. I also produce electronic devices but in another product line that has nothing to do with metal detectors. Indeed, the first units produced Golden Mask with such coil housing, but that was 5 years ago. Having had serious problems on the mechanical stability of the search coils Lilov construct a new coil housing to replace the old. Currently, these coil housing is only mediocre marks metal detectors (home made) that not have the money to develop their housing .


Dear dealers and distributors of metal detectors Blisstool, I show only the other side of the coin, you write only superlatives to in Blisstooluk website when you receive negative opinions you delete it, why? I know that it is important that you won money from the metal detector, and that you are doing everything possible to happen, but you should know that such euphoria Blisstool had in many other countries - Italy, Germany, Finland, Ukraine and Russia, but it was a very short now there nobody buys Blisstool because of all it is know that this detector is a misunderstanding.
Dear Blisstool distributors I think that you are left with the false impression that this Merchev Ahmed is a large manufacturer of metal detectors? I think he misled you that produces large amounts of metal detectors of one year?
Ahmed Merchev produces metal detectors Blisstool at his home where he lives. Its annual production capacity is about 200 pc. of year but all its distributors think that he produce 3-4000 pcs. The most common excuses are that there is increased demand and the delivery time increases
Where manufactured the metal detectors Blisstool –
Blisstool workshop in Slashten
http://www.sabori.bg/images/sela1/jijevo3.jpg?w=800
http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/7963/pa170346hb6.jpg
http://www.meteo-europ.com/en/bg/sof...-pictures.html
population Slashten - 1 991 humans