Human interfaces

[Davor]

Hi all,

I am still quite new to MD stuff, so please don't mind me asking silly questions.

As I am in a process of writing a PhD thesis on navigation (and other walks of life) interfaces for the disabled people, I had high hopes for something more sophisticated with metal detectors, but in vain. So far most of the videos of metal detectors revealed that, although informative, most of the interfaces are at least annoying or worse. It is not a difference between some number of hours before listening fatigue kicks in that is different from one model to another, but a completely different animal altogether. It is just horrible!

Now, with my obvious lack of experience in MD-s, I wish to learn from first hand users the difference between different interfaces that proven to be better or worse.

I kinda expect to identify some interface of a searching tool (you may substitute "searching tool" with long cane for the blind or a MD - should fit any purpose) that is good for regular use and long continuous periods, and that will not interfere too much with other activities.

Every interface review is welcome, especially if accompanied with a video to support it. This could eventually work for the benefit of all.

[Farside]

A sight based interface is out for obvious reasons (can't walk and watch screen at the same time).

A smell inteface is sensitive to wind and temperature.

A touch based system (Haptic Technology) would be interesting but you do get "fatigue" too. Just try tapping or tickling the back of your hand enough times and you'll see what I mean. The promising thing about this route though is that you have your sight and hearing totally free.

The lilypad (http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardLilyPad) is a microcontroller designed to be worked into clothing so a tactile interface suit is definately within the realms of possibility.

Here's something related:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP3GNCVHG1g

There are a bunch of project for Haptic gloves which would likely provide the necessary resolution feedback (5 steps)

[Davor]

Thank you Farside, I am unfortunately aware of various interfaces out there, but what I actually need is firsthand experience in using metal detectors. I want to learn what works, and what works better, and most of all how does prolonged usage affect you.

By a very small mind stretch a metal detector is in fact a tool for navigating through environment, so whatever works with metal detectors should also work somewhere else as well.

I've noticed how some people own several detectors and their feelings about them, and I wish to grasp what makes a detector better or worse in terms of comfort and non-distraction.

In case you can give a comparison of some number of detectors, please go on. At the very end we'll all profit from such experiences. Think of this as a pageant for MD-s

[homefire]

Bone Conduction Audio!

http://www.audioboneheadphones.com/

[mario]

Thank you Farside, I am unfortunately aware of various interfaces out there, but what I actually need is firsthand experience in using metal detectors. I want to learn what works, and what works better, and most of all how does prolonged usage affect you.

By a very small mind stretch a metal detector is in fact a tool for navigating through environment, so whatever works with metal detectors should also work somewhere else as well.

I've noticed how some people own several detectors and their feelings about them, and I wish to grasp what makes a detector better or worse in terms of comfort and non-distraction.

In case you can give a comparison of some number of detectors, please go on. At the very end we'll all profit from such experiences. Think of this as a pageant for MD-s

Most of us will be biased with the equipment we own. Instead, your best bet is to go online and research the individual models you might be interested in testing. You will find complete reviews that will detail their advantages/disadvantages.

It is true that most of us own more than one unit. In your research you will find that no single unit will satisfy the detecting needs of every individual. For instance, some of us don't care much for discrimination and give preference to depth -which means these individuals don't mind digging (think relic hunters). Meanwhile, other individuals don't like digging every target and give preference to accurate discrimination (think coin shooters).

It is true that some machines include a variety of configurations that optimize for individual settings. However, these "jack-of-all trades" detectors may excel at one or two settings but not everything.

Some sites to get you started:

http://prospecting.atspace.com/shootout.html
http://www.njminerals.org/metaldetecting-shootout.html
http://www.bigvalleymetaldetectors.com/bestpin.htm

[Carl-NC]

I've noticed how some people own several detectors and their feelings about them, and I wish to grasp what makes a detector better or worse in terms of comfort and non-distraction.

The use of multiple detectors is usually for specific capabilities, not because of interface differences. For prospecting, high trash, salt beach, deep relic, and meteorite hunting you might want 5 different detectors.

Detectors run the way they run ("interface") because it works pretty well. Yep, "tone fatigue" can be a problem, sometimes I can still hear the threshold tone hours after I turn the detector off. But audio has more information that the brain can quickly process than you can probably get any other way, especially using mixed mode audio.

Got suggestions for a better interface?

[homefire]

How Come No One has done this before?????

Tired of those Head Phones?

Hard of Hearing Too?

You Need NMES! Yes You Do.

Electrical muscle stimulation (EMS), also known as neuromuscular electrical stimulation (NMES) or electromyostimulation!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_muscle_stimulation

As Soon as I can Perfect this, I'll be RICH! RICH I TELL YA!

Here's Me Plan!

I plan on replacing Head Phones with those Stomach Toning Electro Muscle Gizmo's!


l

You even have a choice of what part of your BOD you want Stimulated
following Target Acquisition. YA! Got this Figured out!

http://www.lgmedsupply.com/coelga.html



For those DIY type, you have this to play with too!
Conductive Thread! Yea Man!

http://www.jameco.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10001_10001_2144489_-1

You can get your wife to stitch you up some Underwear for those targets that are just a whisper.



Sure to be noticed now.

[golfnut]

I know what your thinking - Im not a hippy

But, I was thinking of musical notes for the various target phase 'bands'

Rather than triggering lcd icons - use a polymorphic music IC that can do true musical notes.

S

[Davor]

Even those could prove tiresome

The whole idea is combining several mobility aids to improve mobility, but also to avoid masking of useful stimuli from surroundings, and also to avoid mutual competition of various stimuli from the aids.
In short, I wish to evaluate how far one can go adding electronic aid on top of the other aids and get improvement in person's mobility in that process.
In shorter, I want to find how much electronic aid is optimum.

Too many gizmos just stupify you, and they must not dominate against the useful observations.

So far I found lots of information on this forum, but some more first hand comparisons will be even better. Thank you for that

[Skippy]

One of the obvious problems with having a complicated, informative interface is that it would take a long while to learn, just as learning a new language takes time. For example you could use the stereo effect to feed more info into your ears. But MD manufacturers know that most customers don't want to learn a complicated machine, they often expect the opposite - a machine that does much of the hard decision-making for them. Look how many nearly-new high-end machines you see for sale, because the owner didn't immediately get on with it, and failed to realise it would take months to understand.

[Davor]

Bingo!
The trivial observation of electronic aids would be - the more the merrier - but after a small number of devices being turned on you get a cacophony and confusion. My task is to find a sweet spot - the optimum blend of as much as (literally) humanly possible.

[Skippy]

The issue is - what do you define as the limit? The more you practice (at just about anything) the better at it you get. What was a cacophony becomes easily intelligible. If you were visually impaired and had an in-brain implant/video-camera system fitted, you would be prepared to take several years learning how to 'See' again. Not true with a metal detector. I imagine the ideal 'device' would be easy to learn the basics, but feature-rich/upgradeable to allow more skilled use.

[Davor]

Yes and no. Learning makes you an expert in discerning some interface, however, expert knowledge will not make you squeeze more information from your senses into your brains. There are information limits, and attention limits. Attention can be trained, but available information is limited to few bits per sense.
Visual acuity is only an illusion created by our highly trained brain, otherwise hearing provides more bits of information.
Among hearing interfaces there are talking, signalling and binaural (space related) stimuli, and they may work simultaneously, but they also tend to mask each other. So, to get the most out of it, you need an interface that is tender enough in order not to mask other sources of information, and yet discernible enough in order to provide you with information as accurate as practical.

In layman's words - something that works right, but also makes talking to a friend or listening to music possible.

[Skippy]

Interesting, your observation about being able to hear what's going on whilst detecting. I'll bet most serious detectorists completely shut out other sounds when detecting in order to concentrate on the detector sounds. I personally only use one earpiece so I can hear my surroundings, but I concentrate hard on the one ear when swinging. Detecting is aurally fatiguing, but once a target is located, you get a break, so you are able to detect longer.As for the comment earlier about 'visual interfaces being unsuitable' I personally spend a lot of time visually checking my machines LCD - my eyes are constantly going from the search-coil, the surroundings and the display, especially when I (based on audio cues) think I have a target, and am interrogating it for identity, location, depth info.

[goldfinder]

Nerve Stimilation

Carl hit it. Repetitive Audio or any kind of repetitive nerve stimlulation "tires" out that part of the nervous system. I worked on "human factors" problems and the old audio listening was and is a real problem. A good trained ear can pick out signals from the noise hash in metal detecting but how many of us geezers have good ears and who really gets any training. Do it with DSP and you'll solve your human interface problem and a ton of other problems.
Goldfinder