Designing and marketing new metal detectors.

[ivconic]

My country is very small, meaning; is easy to me to anticipate outspread of some brands and models, considering the fact that i am in this for long time.
So speaking of hot priced GP&GPX machines... hardly that there are 5 pcs altogether here.
But there are several hundreds of medium priced (up to 1000e) machines.
Last year there were only 3 Deus-es in whole country. Now there are over 100 and more.
Reading local forums and adverts i am not surprised to see enormous interest in those and am sure it's number will rise over thousand until end of this year.
Nowdays seems everybody here is planing to obtain some of top XP's; GMP, Gmaxx or Deus.
Ok money is important factor but not most deciding.
Local soils and conditions are the important factor to decide on desired machine character.
As i recall, in the past; Fisher did well job here. Real Fishers like 12xx series and CZ's - not todays funny plastic toys from F series.
I can assume (and be very right) that still there are several hundreds of Fishers in use here.
So as older Minelabs. White's too. Cscopes too.
Speaking of nugget&gold hunting, well ... it is still young "sport" here.
There is natural gold here. But so far it is still taken from nature using old methods and less likely with detectors.
Maybe because there is not enough good nugget hunter on market, with price under 1000e? How about that?

P.S.
Just saw your post BBsailor.
What you are proposing will most certainly appear on market soon. Simply it must.
I guess in next year or two we will see something like that for sure.

[Tinkerer]

Done.

Thanks Qiaozhi

by the way, I think the time has come to start learning to speak Mandarin. Coild you give me some pointers?

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

So Tinkerer, if you want to closely analyze "Designing and marketing new metal detectors" problems: you should also comprise analyzes of targeting customers categories.
Better targeted product - higher chances to success !
(as an example: seems Minelab is only targeting customers with deep pockets lately!)

Thanks for the feedback.

"Better targeted products" is certainly a good idea. I am sure you can come up with many more good ideas.

All this is not for me, but for the industry and the hobby.

My own interest is purely "academic". I do this like other people play solitaire.

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

Thanks for the feedback.

"Better targeted products" is certainly a good idea. I am sure you can come up with many more good ideas.

All this is not for me, but for the industry and the hobby.

My own interest is purely "academic". I do this like other people play solitaire.

Tinkerer

As time goes by; my own "interest" becomes more and more "academic" too.
What else we can do except exchanging opinions? I am afraid; not much.

"...I think the time has come to start learning to speak Mandarin...."

Good idea!
You will not be the only one!

P.S.
Now is obvious that our dear friend Qiaozhi is very profound and far seeing person!

[Tinkerer]

Tinkerer,

what you CONCRETELY offer? there was a man wishing to buy Hammerhead from me. I asked $80 for soldered PCB with a coil. I do not see him FROM THE TIME

[COLOR="Black"] is the DEAL you mean? is it the HUGE MARKET?

Hi KT315,

language is a big barrier. Even with computer translation it is often very difficult to understand the message. Selling metal detectors in far away countries also faces the language hurdle.

KT315, I do not offer anything. I beg for a good discussion. I hope to learn a lot from the discussion. They say "one is never too old to learn". I believe in that.

Tinkerer

[Tinkerer]

I'll bet there are a whole lot more than 2M. However, a lot of those are digging nearly gold dust, stuff that a detector won't detect. Still, there is a huge market for gold detectors, as shown by the explosion of gold detector sales.

The (apparent) fact that Minelab is selling gobs of 4500's into 3rd World countries at a steep price suggests that a high price is not necessarily a barrier. Whether it's popular because of performance or mystique is a good question. The former suggests that a good performer at a lower price would succeed. The latter suggests that price & performance won't close the deal.

In any case, anyone wanting to design/produce a new metal detector should probably focus on a niche market where they can command a high price. Blisstool seems to have hit it about right. Lorenz and PulseStar, too. A solid GPX competitor at about half the price would probably work. I've always thought a sub-$1000 consumer-grade (non-military) mine detector would also do well, assuming you can deal with the liability issue.

- Carl

Thanks Carl, for the information, seen from an insider angle. AN EXPLOSION OF GOLD DETECTOR SALES.
I live in one of these 3rd world countries, actually not too far form vast gold fields, and see the situation from the inside here.
Minelab detectors here? I saw one for sale on the local ebay, at 16,000 US$. Yes sixteen thousand US dollars. But, is there a market for detectors here? NONE. Why? this is a long story and hard to explain to people living in a civilized world.

It is one of the puzzles to be solved, but nobody seems to be interested in spending the time and money to find the answers.

By the way, some of the most valuable gold nuggets come from this region. The highest priced on I know of, sold for about US$ 632.000. I will try to find the picture of it.

There is lots of gold.
The gold is of good size for detectors.

Tinkerer


Price Realized:
$632,500.00 Item Description

Native Gold Crystal. 217.78 grams, 4.44 x 4.27 x 2.06 cm. It would be difficult to find enough superlatives to completely express in text the significance and impressive nature of this world class mineral specimen. It is as breathtakingly beautiful as it is technically outstanding among the known specimens of gold crystals held in collections around the world. While numerous large water worn gold nuggets are known, many being considerably larger than this crystal, these as a class are the most common form of visible gold. They are usually bulbous, well rounded, and lacking the lustre seen on specimens in more pristine condition. Though the largest nuggets may be quite substantial and impressive in this regard alone, their appeal is derived primarily from their size and much less so from their aesthetic quality. Gold nuggets of any size or shape offer the universally appealing tone of gold and occasionally a trace of quartz or other matrix. By their nature, they also inspire the romantic allure derived from common conceptions of a prospector finding a fabulous stream-bed prize. However, also by their nature, gold nuggets have been subjected to natural processes which have resulted in large part to the loss of their truly special original character. Visually they differ considerably from rare gold crystals, which maintain the look and feel of gold in its most virginal, and dare we say most complex, interesting, and beautiful form. Crystals are also the rarest form as a group, representing less than 1% of all gold found. Structurally, this large crystal is a skeletal octahedron, technically similar to many pieces offered here, though none are nearly as large and important. As illustrated throughout the listings, this crystalline structure appears in many forms ranging from very well formed examples displaying easily decipherable symmetry such as the second and third examples, to pieces with the same structure flattened to varying degrees, or associated with other crystalline structures in diverse and complex grouped arrangements. This example is beautifully formed, with the faces easily seen, and more similar in this regard to the second and third crystalline golds in this collection than to the later examples. There are only trivial signs of alluvial wear and a couple of tiny softened spots from handling. The definition and articulation of the intricate crystalline forms and the outer edges are very sharp as are the exceptionally well terminated faces. The gold is rich in tone, of high purity, and highly lustrous. The most protected surfaces are essentially pristine. Due to its size and form, it exhibits spectacular aesthetics. It is an enormous crystal and its incredible weight is worthy of specific mention. Of all known single crystals of gold, it is estimated that 99% weigh less than one ounce. Unbelievably, this specimen weighs approximately seven ounces! This specimen has been widely accepted as the world's largest single crystal of gold. In the cataloguers' 70 years combined experience in the study and trade of rare mineral specimens, this is without question the largest example we have seen. The most important public collections of mineral specimens include the holdings of the British Museum, the Smithsonian Institution, the Mineralogical Museum at Harvard University, the American Museum of National History in New York, and the Houston Museum of Natural Science. Taking into consideration all of these world class collections, it is the opinion of the cataloguers that only a single gold specimen residing in the collection at Harvard is more important than the presently offered piece. That example, a famous and well published large gold wire approximately 4.5 inches in length, is a rarer form for gold and by far the largest of its habit. It last appeared at auction as the highlight of the George de la Bouglise Collection sold in Paris, France in 1911, and it has been in the collection of Harvard University since the late 1940s, where it will remain. Among the great auction sales of mineral specimens in history, there have been very few important gold crystals offered. As to auction sales with significant collections of gold mineral specimens, there are really only two worthy of discussion. The aforementioned sale of the Bouglise Collection, and the collection of A. Dorhmann, Esquire sold by S.H. and H. Chapman (primarily remembered today as rare coin auctioneers), in Philadelphia, in December 1886. The Dorhmann sale included a crystal similar in shape to this one, and it was among the few plated highlights. That piece, from El Dorado County, California, was approximately 2.75 ounces. Many of the best pieces from the Dorhmann sale ended up in the Bouglise Collection, and as such, the present sale stands high in importance among all of the great sales of minerals for the inclusion of the Roraima Shield Collection, no specimens from which have ever previously been offered for sale at public auction. This specimen was acquired on September 14, 1987 by Jack Carlson and Roger La Rochelle while living at the site of the mine where it was discovered in the Gran Sabana of southeastern Venezuela, a westerly extension of the Pre-Cambrian Guyana Shield, locally known as the Roraima Shield. It has been held closely in this collection since that time and considered by Carlson and La Rochelle as the single most important specimen in their collection, "Specimen #1." It has been featured on the covers of a number of major international mineralogical publications including LAPIS Mineralin Magazin (April 199, and Rivista Mineralogica Italiana (#3, 199. It is a specimen of world renown. The appearance of this specimen at public auction is truly a once in a lifetime occurrence to acquire one of the very finest and most important of all gold mineral specimens. Once this piece enters the next collection, which may very well be institutional, it could very easily be rendered unobtainable for generations of collectors, possibly forever. Its significance among gold specimens should not be underestimated, and the importance of this buying opportunity should be carefully considered. It is a rare case indeed when a mineral specimen of this caliber is found in a private collection and offered for sale, such pieces usually being in the care of the great museums of the world. It is a natural object of immense beauty, among the great works of Mother Nature, and one which promises its next owner immense satisfaction. Est. $500,000-750,000.

From the Roraima Shield Collection, formed by Jack Carlson and Roger LaRochelle (Specimen #1). Collected in the Roraima Shield District, Icabaru, Venezuela, September 14, 1987.

[kt315]

Hi KT315,

language is a big barrier. Even with computer translation it is often very difficult to understand the message. Selling metal detectors in far away countries also faces the language hurdle.

KT315, I do not offer anything. I beg for a good discussion. I hope to learn a lot from the discussion. They say "one is never too old to learn". I believe in that.

Tinkerer

Tinkerer, seems you are non-english man too. Why do you not wish to write your country in your Profile? Open your face.

Let's take new CTX3030 as an very illustrative example here.

ivconic's market analise is BEST. the true is on his side.

[Tinkerer]

Some pictures of gold nuggets from "up the road"

I have not found the best one yet, but these were nice finds too.

Tinkerer

Hmm, the pictures did not upload. I will try again.

And thanks for all the valuable feedback. I can not answer to each one individually, but I sure appreciate each and every comment and idea.

[Tinkerer]

Here we try again for the nugget pictures. Obviously these were not found in the crusher of a gold mine.

Tinkerer

[Comp]

Ok, Ok,Ok,... I give up!!! I have dabbled for a year, or so,.... I have constructed a couple of Surfboard PI type units, and a IGSL board, & bought coils off Ebay,.... I seem to spend more time in the workshop, tweaking, than outside, detecting!!! I have thrown my hat in the ring,... gone along with Ivconic, {who I dont know, but, whose knowledge/skill/experience I have the utmost respect for....) I have purchased an XP Deus,.,.... not cheap, but neither is a Rolls Royce!!!

I have tweaked/ fine tuned my P.I. board/coil, & IGSL board, and they can air test my wedding ring at 8 to 9" plus,... but the Deus fast programme beats this hands down,... so I am going with this, and will start to search, instead of build!!!!

( I have not given up with the soldering iron, but wish to spend more time searching, not 'tweaking'!!!!!! )

Thanks for all the super advice I have had from forum members over the last year, or so!!!!

Cheers, Fred

[Tinkerer]

All these and hundreds more, come from the same region. The Roraima, an ancient mountain massif that spreads across the borders of Venezuela, Brasil and Guyana. The region where the explorer Raleigh in the year 1595, claimed to be the ELDORADO.

Why is the use of metal detectors not widespread in the region?

Tinkerer

[ivconic]

All these and hundreds more, come from the same region. The Roraima, an ancient mountain massif that spreads across the borders of Venezuela, Brasil and Guyana. The region where the explorer Raleigh in the year 1595, claimed to be the ELDORADO.

Why is the use of metal detectors not widespread in the region?

Tinkerer

Charming specimens! Wow!

"..Why is the use of metal detectors not widespread in the region? ..."

It is not? Than what are the methods of discovering such nice nuggets?
As you said; such sized nuggets are easy to be detected with metal detector.

[ivconic]

Ok, Ok,Ok,... I give up!!! I have dabbled for a year, or so,.... I have constructed a couple of Surfboard PI type units, and a IGSL board, & bought coils off Ebay,.... I seem to spend more time in the workshop, tweaking, than outside, detecting!!! I have thrown my hat in the ring,... gone along with Ivconic, {who I dont know, but, whose knowledge/skill/experience I have the utmost respect for....) I have purchased an XP Deus,.,.... not cheap, but neither is a Rolls Royce!!!

I have tweaked/ fine tuned my P.I. board/coil, & IGSL board, and they can air test my wedding ring at 8 to 9" plus,... but the Deus fast programme beats this hands down,... so I am going with this, and will start to search, instead of build!!!!

( I have not given up with the soldering iron, but wish to spend more time searching, not 'tweaking'!!!!!! )

Thanks for all the super advice I have had from forum members over the last year, or so!!!!

Cheers, Fred

Yup!
Enough playing with soldering gun!
Life is very short and there is no "rent" money in making detectors (Carl's observation).
So take Deus and go outdoor. Like i do.
Fresh air, untouched nature, physical activity = health and a lot of joy and pleasure!
Not to mention adrenaline stroke when something old, rare and valuable is discovered!
Wow!
Best luck!
Cheers!

[holyuser]

Why is the use of metal detectors not widespread in the region?

There are many traps and poisonous snakes and spiders.

[ivconic]

There are many traps and poisonous snakes and spiders.

You think so? I doubt.
Most dangerous European viper is residing exactly here at "our" area (Bulgaria and Serbia), in fact.
I usually meet dozen of those per sunny day. Not an issue.
Already got well used on those. Kinda habit to meet them everywhere.
Simply ignore them and those will ignore you too. Fair enough.
So far no viper ever prevented no hobbyist to continue with his habits.
Search coil is always in front of us, so there is low chance not to spot it at right time and avoid it slowly without direct confrontation.
Spiders? Maybe. But i don't think local people there do consider those as real problem.
I think local people there are also very well used to meet dangerous spiders everywhere.
Traps? Maybe. Can't tell.
I expected to hear about another reason actually.
Remember Esteban, Hung and few other guys?
Especially Esteban. He used to post tens of photos from his "safaris".
I do remember indeed lot of metal detectors on those photos, despite his pointing on frequent use of various LRL devices.
So actually there are conventional metal detectors in use there.
But i would rather wait for Tinkerers explanation on this.