EZ Coil Winder

[simonbaker]

counter attempt 1

First try at turn-counter, in keeping with ultra-low-tech concept. Feel free to laugh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brzQXkf9geg

Kindergarten construction techniques - pencils, cardboard, Elmer's glue. Hey, I don't have a shop.

Counts to 99 then resets - fine for my coils.

This one just a proof of concept, not really reliable yet. Easy to improve with better materials or wooden gears, more careful adjustment.

Other ideas on the drawing board -- use hand-held tally counter with button that increments count. Hard to mount because round.

Of course electronic counter would be slick, but then where's the victory?

Was this turn-counter it worth the trouble - probably not. But the coil winder was easy to make, definitely worth it.

Cheers!
-SB

[porkluvr]

You am artist.

That looks like something straight out of the Flintstones, but it works (and it's expandable)!

I for one am not laughing.

[hobbes_lives]

Wow, nice homemade counter! I bet that took longer to make than the winder itself, huh?

[simonbaker]

You am artist.

That looks like something straight out of the Flintstones

That is so accurate, I'm still ROTGLOL.....!

Penny-wise and pound-foolish I am, but if I weren't crazy I'd go mad...

Always enjoy the feedback...

Cheers!

-SB

[MaverickITA]

Yesterday I built one copy of your machine.
I can say that it work well.

The only problem are the cd-rom.
I found them too small as diameter.
Do you know a valid replace?

I am looking for add an electronic counter but I am busy at the moment therefore I will do this second step next month.

I send a photo or video when complete it.

Thank you Simonbaker !

[simonbaker]

Yesterday I built one copy of your machine.
I can say that it work well.

The only problem are the cd-rom.
I found them too small as diameter.
Do you know a valid replace?

I am looking for add an electronic counter but I am busy at the moment therefore I will do this second step next month.

I send a photo or video when complete it.

Thank you Simonbaker !

Maybe your wood disk is not so flat. I don't mind if it scrapes a little anyway.

Maybe you can use some slippery nylon sheets, like those cheap cutting boards for the kitchen. Cut some bigger circles with that instead of the CD-ROMs.

If you have a wood shop and router, you could make grooves for ball bearings -- much too fancy for me!

Keep trying and let us know what works.

Regards,

-SB

[porkluvr]

Try something called an LP record. Those were 10" vinyl disks physically imprinted with grooves encoded with audio information. They were widely use before the CD was invented. Ancient stuff. You could possibly find one in an antique store or a curios shop.

Just make sure it says "Bobby Goldsboro" or "Barry Manilow" and not "The Beatles" (or Michael Jackson) because those could be worth MONEY$$.

That reminds me, I need to find a phonograph player before they completely disappear off the face of the earth, like the record stores.

Laser Discs are even wider and thicker but probably next to impossible to find and may have real collector's value (but I wouldn't count on it). They might work even better. Or, glue three to five regular CDs around the circumference of the winder. (!)

[der_fisherman]

Great coilwinder, I will be copying it a bit to make my coils.

I also saw the other video with the mechanical counter, not bad, but I am going to use a LCD digital counter that I bought for aprox $5 from ebay.....or make an old calculator count from a magnet and a reed switch by watching Youtube....

Check the picture.

Regards

Andy

[simonbaker]

Great coilwinder, I will be copying it a bit to make my coils.

I also saw the other video with the mechanical counter, not bad, but I am going to use a LCD digital counter that I bought for aprox $5 from ebay.....or make an old calculator count from a magnet and a reed switch by watching Youtube....

Check the picture.

Regards

Andy

Hope the mechanical counter provided some amusement!

IMO, you want a counter that decrements if you need to unwind some turns (which happens). I'd like to see a neat way to do that (besides pencils, cardboard, and glue).

That digital counter looks like it should provide success.

Regards,

-SB

[Dukeshooter]

First Post

A calculator and reed/mechanical switch can keep count if you unwind.
Also you could, if you are inclined to figure inductance's.

To subtract counts simply press (-) then unwind, and it will count down.

[simonbaker]

A calculator and reed/mechanical switch can keep count if you unwind.
Also you could, if you are inclined to figure inductance's.

To subtract counts simply press (-) then unwind, and it will count down.

That's not bad, I may try that.

Thanks,

-SB

[der_fisherman]

Using Digital Counters on coilwinder

My LCD counter, will only count up when the coil is either wound or unwound. That may appear as being a negative aspect, but that is a misnomer....

Firstly, once its wound, its usually far better to watch the impedance of the coil using an impedance (mH) meter for a proper & fine adjustment, rather than counting turns. The impedance usually being the most important value, not the number of turns, in my limited experience.

But if you do need a specific number of turns, you should have been watching more carefully when winding them on in the first place!

But even that's not a problem, just decide on the final number of turns to remove, note carefully the value on the counter (just in case!), reset the counter to zero, turn the coil-winder backwards for the number of turns needed to be removed - problem solved.

But for those who find that too difficult , there are LCD counters that have both a count up and a count down button......not expensive, cost a little bit more, but still REALLY cheap. Also the calculator "counters" can easily be set to count up or down when the "=" is pressed.)

Although the "pencil" counter you made is a lot of fun, there is no guarantee that the number of turns indicated is in the end, exactly correct, as it could easily jump a count (no detents in place), making the count possibly unreliable. A jump of 10 is easily possible = disaster!!!

Though I did find it very, very interesting....and I thank you most kindly for making it and drawing it to our attention here with such a well made video..... (I am green with envy with regard to your video quality!!)

Once I have my coil-winder finished, (and assuming it works correctly!) I will post a video or pictures!!

Regards

Andy

[simonbaker]

My LCD counter, will only count up when the coil is either wound or unwound. That may appear as being a negative aspect, but that is a misnomer....

Firstly, once its wound, its usually far better to watch the impedance of the coil using an impedance (mH) meter for a proper & fine adjustment, rather than counting turns. The impedance usually being the most important value, not the number of turns, in my limited experience.

But if you do need a specific number of turns, you should have been watching more carefully when winding them on in the first place!

But even that's not a problem, just decide on the final number of turns to remove, note carefully the value on the counter (just in case!), reset the counter to zero, turn the coil-winder backwards for the number of turns needed to be removed - problem solved.

But for those who find that too difficult , there are LCD counters that have both a count up and a count down button......not expensive, cost a little bit more, but still REALLY cheap. Also the calculator "counters" can easily be set to count up or down when the "=" is pressed.)

Although the "pencil" counter you made is a lot of fun, there is no guarantee that the number of turns indicated is in the end, exactly correct, as it could easily jump a count (no detents in place), making the count possibly unreliable. A jump of 10 is easily possible = disaster!!!

Though I did find it very, very interesting....and I thank you most kindly for making it and drawing it to our attention here with such a well made video..... (I am green with envy with regard to your video quality!!)

Once I have my coil-winder finished, (and assuming it works correctly!) I will post a video or pictures!!

Regards

Andy

Sounds good.

"Watching the impedance" is desirable, but how to do it without lots of scraping insulation and recoating the bare spots?

I once thought of making a "zero impedance" spool of wire where the wire is wound back and forth to self-cancel the impedance, and then you can just monitor the entire impedance of your wound coil plus the spool (the spool having zero impedance).

The problem with monitoring impedance is that the impedance changes a lot when you finish the coil by binding it tightly, gluing, etc. In the end, once you get it right, you probably do best by counting windings to get consistent coils.

A bicycle odometer type of counter would seem good to me, but too fancy with gears and such.

Actually, I don't need to unwind much anymore now that I use a "sandwich" form like dfbowers which keeps the windings from straying all over the place.

-SB

[der_fisherman]

Sounds good.

"Watching the impedance" is desirable, but how to do it without lots of scraping insulation and recoating the bare spots? -SB

If you have the correct amount of turns or even a few more, just scrape the end, measure, shorten, measure and so on. Even cutting a turn, scraping, measure and so on will work. Also, provided you are using the correct sized wire, there is often a tip as to how much impedance is in one turn, which of course you could measure for yourself as well.....using Superglue instead of binding, in spots around the coil allows even easier for a turn to be peeled off easily.

I once thought of making a "zero impedance" spool of wire where the wire is wound back and forth to self-cancel the impedance, and then you can just monitor the entire impedance of your wound coil plus the spool (the spool having zero impedance). -SB

I must admit that I did not ever hear of that, could be interesting, can you do an "Impedance 101" for people like myself please on that point alone?

The problem with monitoring impedance is that the impedance changes a lot when you finish the coil by binding it tightly, gluing, etc. In the end, once you get it right, you probably do best by counting windings to get consistent coils.-SB

To a degree I agree, but as it should be tightly bound when making the measurements, then slip a turn out very carefully, it should be OK, plus there is often a tip as to the final difference.....Theoretically, you could re-tune it with a few small value caps if it has toö low impedance.

A bicycle odometer type of counter would seem good to me, but too fancy with gears and such. -SB

More expensive than the counters I am going to use and also difficult to set up as they only have parameters for various wheel sizes, they do not count revolutions per se....they measure distance.

Actually, I don't need to unwind much anymore now that I use a "sandwich" form like dfbowers which keeps the windings from straying all over the place. -SB

Thats exactly the type I am making as you can make the coil far "flatter", therefore thinner top to bottom, but also wider. I also believe then its better, though I have no proof. Like the single wire thickness flat coils often made for PI machines. I believe they have less built in own capacitance according to what I have read at least! What is your take on that point?

Though I admit that I have little idea as to how you could measure this capacitance, possibly you need to feed it with an oscillator and find its resonant frequency (maximum current), knowing the coil's inductance, will let you calculate the capacitance......)

Regards

Andy

[simonbaker]

If you have the correct amount of turns or even a few more, just scrape the end, measure, shorten, measure and so on. Even cutting a turn, scraping, measure and so on will work. Also, provided you are using the correct sized wire, there is often a tip as to how much impedance is in one turn, which of course you could measure for yourself as well.....using Superglue instead of binding, in spots around the coil allows even easier for a turn to be peeled off easily.

Yes, if you over-wind, not so hard to remove, just a bit wasteful if you cut and tedious to scrape, measure, and reinsulate.

I must admit that I did not ever hear of that, could be interesting, can you do an "Impedance 101" for people like myself please on that point alone?

It's just the idea of a spool that is alternatively wound in one direction, then the other, so the net current sheet around the spool is zero. It requires a special spool (which I've puzzled over several designs) and might require pulling the wire off the end of the spool. I doubt it's practical, but just one of those wacky ideas that works in theory and should allow you to measure the inductance of your coil just using the two ends of the wire. For big spools and small coils probably not too accurate.

To a degree I agree, but as it should be tightly bound when making the measurements, then slip a turn out very carefully, it should be OK, plus there is often a tip as to the final difference.....Theoretically, you could re-tune it with a few small value caps if it has toö low impedance.

My latest coils are more like that. With my free-form windings, I had one coil that was tightly bound (but not glued) of 24 AWG wire, and needed to remove several turns... what a production, not so easy since the turns were not stacked inside-to-out. I decided it's easier to try to get the right count.

Thats exactly the type I am making as you can make the coil far "flatter", therefore thinner top to bottom, but also wider. I also believe then its better, though I have no proof. Like the single wire thickness flat coils often made for PI machines. I believe they have less built in own capacitance according to what I have read at least! What is your take on that point?

I've wondered about that too -- my feeling is you want to minimize the voltage between adjacent windings and perhaps the number of neighboring turns, so I'd think flatter is better to reduce capacitance. But I have no experience to confirm that.

Though I admit that I have little idea as to how you could measure this capacitance, possibly you need to feed it with an oscillator and find its resonant frequency (maximum current), knowing the coil's inductance, will let you calculate the capacitance......)

Yes, I think finding the "self-resonance" of the coil is the way to estimate the capacitance. For VLF MD coils I don't think we care much what it is.

Regards,

-SB