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MMP kit Steps 1 - 4 feedback and a few questions

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  • MMP kit Steps 1 - 4 feedback and a few questions

    Greetings,

    I would like to say thank you for everyone involved. I purchased the kit from Silverdog and it arrived quickly. The board quality is great and to me it is a great deal to get the board and all the parts together. I cannot imagine the time I would spend trying to chase them all down myself. I am following the directions step by step. I am not an EE and purchased this kit to practice my electronics skills and teach my kids how to solder.

    Observations:

    I like this kit due to: mature design, high quality board, complete parts for board, the step by step instructions, and the high amount of geotech forum activity.

    It is great that the minipulse plus instructions have text, pictures, schematics, parts list, and testing for each stage. The board design appears to be very organized. The first general note is that some of the parts like the resistors are labeled and easy to identify. Some of the capacitors labels are more difficult to decipher. I would not complain if the capacitors were labeled like the resistors. Another idea is for the parts list included part label information to help identify the parts. I would encourage builders to have plenty of light and a good magnifying glass to help with part ID, some of the manufactures part's marking was extremely faint on transistors and IC chips.

    Step 1.
    No problem. I like how Fig. 2 shows the meter wire polarity to confirm -5V at U8.

    Step 2.
    No problem. Measured voltage at TP2 and got +5V.

    Step 3.
    I do not have an oscilloscope, I hope to take my board over to my EE friend and test it on his scope. Figured out that C6(47nF) is boxlike polyester capacitor labeled 47nJ100 and C20 is a ceramic capacitor labeled 101. I used a earbud headphone as described and easily hear the high pitched tone. Music to my ears.

    Step 4.
    Question 1: Is it beneficial to mount D10 as high off the board as stock leads allow?


    I want to confirm details about monocoil design. My first coil that I wound to at least perform basic testing with is simple speaker wire. I am following the design found on: http://www.adrianandgenese.com/blogger/ for a Surf PI. He twists the left and right wires together at both ends. He then connects the combined inside leads to the plus on his Surf PI and the combined outside leads to the minus.
    Question 2:
    If this wire design will work, does it matter whether the inside or outside it the TX vs the RX?

    In Fig 14. the chassis coil plug for the mono coil is shown. My understanding this is the solder pins of a standard 5 pin connector that fits commercial coils. Pin 3 is the connection for the screen that can shield a mono coil from effects like wet grass. Pin 5 energizes the coil (TX) from the middle pin of PL2 and Pin 1 of the connector sends received signal back to the middle pin of PL4.

    Question 3:
    My understanding is the detector will function without a shield on the coil but may false with things like wet grass. I understand that shield should be conductive, insulated from TX and RX, and have a gap to avoid appearing like a shorted coil.

    Question 4:
    In Fig.7 and 14 it shows Pin 1 and Pin 5 connected at the plug connector. My first impression is that this shorts energy from energizing the coil. Can someone clarify why these pins appear to be connected at the plug?

    Once I get the board working I would like to experiment with mono, balanced, and basket weave coils.
    My understanding is that at the end of step 4, headphone (earbuds) that not connected to anything should pick up a high pitched tone that is similar to step 3 tone.

    Thank you in advance for any information,
    dbcooper

  • #2
    Well I'm no guru but maybe I can help a little. I have built the MPP without a scope and it is working good. The coil connection made me stop and think to, I looked at pictures how the others did theirs in the completed MPP thread and it cleared things up for me.. Remember a mono coil is only one wire , two ends. One for TX & RX the other goes to ground. I used the inter most wire for the TX & RX and the outer wire for the ground. Think of it as connecting a wire from pin 2 of the TX & RX together , then connect it to one end of the coil and the other end of the coil goes to ground ( pin 1 ).

    Hope this will help until someone with more experience chimes in.

    Here's a link on the 3DSS coils ( 3 dimensional self shielding ) worth reading
    http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showt...Chance-PI-coil
    Last edited by Darin; 02-20-2016, 02:48 AM. Reason: add link for coil

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      Step 4.
      Question 1: Is it beneficial to mount D10 as high off the board as stock leads allow?
      There is no need to space D10 away from the PCB.

      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      Question 2:
      If this wire design will work, does it matter whether the inside or outside it the TX vs the RX?
      There is no difference which way round you connect the coil.

      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      In Fig 14. the chassis coil plug for the mono coil is shown. My understanding this is the solder pins of a standard 5 pin connector that fits commercial coils.
      Different commercial coils use different connection schemes. There is no standard.

      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      Pin 3 is the connection for the screen that can shield a mono coil from effects like wet grass. Pin 5 energizes the coil (TX) from the middle pin of PL2 and Pin 1 of the connector sends received signal back to the middle pin of PL4.
      Correct.

      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      Question 3:
      My understanding is the detector will function without a shield on the coil but may false with things like wet grass. I understand that shield should be conductive, insulated from TX and RX, and have a gap to avoid appearing like a shorted coil.
      Correct.

      Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
      Question 4:
      In Fig.7 and 14 it shows Pin 1 and Pin 5 connected at the plug connector. My first impression is that this shorts energy from energizing the coil. Can someone clarify why these pins appear to be connected at the plug?
      The wire connection between pins 1 and 5 is only required for a mono coil. This is because a mono coil acts as both transmit and receive. If you build a search head with separate transmit and receive coils, then remove the short. Look at Fig. 7.

      Comment


      • #4
        I just got an oscilloscope and curious if anyone can help me with a picture of a scope showing Step 3. where the the TX oscillator is synchronized to U2 (LT1054 voltage converter). What do the waveforms look like?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
          I just got an oscilloscope and curious if anyone can help me with a picture of a scope showing Step 3. where the the TX oscillator is synchronized to U2 (LT1054 voltage converter). What do the waveforms look like?
          If you were to remove R9 (to disable the synchronization) you would see on the scope that the TX oscillator (U4 pin3) is no longer synced to the internal oscillator of the LT1054 (U2 pin7). With synchronization enabled, the two oscillators become locked together. Although they are running at different frequencies, the TX oscillator briefly pauses the internal oscillator of the LT1054 to keep it in step.

          Comment


          • #6
            I wanted to know if I am reading the scope output for Fig. 5 in the instructions. To me it appears that TP1 outputs approximately -5V except when it momentarily pulses ~1Khz. I have done something wrong and my board behaves in a similar matter except it outputs about -10v. Any ideas? I can try to post scope picture if necessary.

            I did not remove R9 but did see how the sync worked between (U4 pin3) and (U2 pin7).

            I am still letting my kids help but am no longer letting them solder on this board. I got them a different board and a huge pile of random components to practice on.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dbcooper View Post
              I wanted to know if I am reading the scope output for Fig. 5 in the instructions. To me it appears that TP1 outputs approximately -5V except when it momentarily pulses ~1Khz. I have done something wrong and my board behaves in a similar matter except it outputs about -10v. Any ideas? I can try to post scope picture if necessary.
              That's most likely because you're referencing the negative terminal of the battery instead of the 0V line. The scope should be connected between TP10 and TP1.
              Please read "Important Points" at the top of page 5 of the Build Document.

              Comment

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