Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Just how important is coil construction for depth?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Just how important is coil construction for depth?

    I'm designing a PI detector for coins and relics (no nuggets). I'm sampling at 50us so I haven't spent much time working to create a super fast coil. Air tests on a US quarter have been between 7" and 9" using brute force methods (high current, etc.). I think this sounds pretty low and I'm looking for ways to increase depth.

    The question is, just how important is coil construction when it comes to depth for this type of application? I know that proper coil construction is critical for gold nuggets and smaller items where you want to sample at 15us and below. But this is a coin machine. What kind of depth increase could I expect by tweaking my coil's parameters? Could I double depth or would I only expect something like a 10% increase?

    My current coil is a 10" monocoil with 20 turns of 24awg stranded speaker wire. The jacket is probably PVC. I have not shielded the coil as I've read that it probably isn't that necessary for such a long sampling delay.

    Should I be looking to improve my coil or should I concentrate on other areas of the circuit to improve performance? I'm looking to increase depth by concentrating on "low hanging fruit" first. Getting a 10% increase in depth by spending significantly more time and money on a coil does not appeal to me. But doubling depth through improved coil design would be worthwhile. What have you found in your own coil experiments? Have you been able to make drastic increases in depth through improved coil design or is there a point of diminishing returns?

  • #2
    Who is the diameter of the US quarter???
    But it is very very difficult to locate o coin (also if it is big) at double distance from yours (18").

    Comment


    • #3
      Geo, a US quarter is 24.26mm and weighs 5.67g. It is made of 75% copper and 25% nickel.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mts View Post
        Geo, a US quarter is 24.26mm and weighs 5.67g. It is made of 75% copper and 25% nickel.
        You should be getting at list 15inches with the size of coin and coil you mentioned...If you don't...you need to adjust it or find a good, simple, yet sensitive design. There are so many available in this forum and others. My first look was at Gary's PI machines which he sells kits. Never did it so decided to design my own. It turned out that he copied some people back in 1988 (never mentioned any of them!!!!)...so the schematics are free..., but in any case you will get more depth!

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks straton. So it sounds like you don't think the coil is the main issue and that my depth is less than expected. I'll leave the coil as-is for now and concentrate on other issues in the circuit such as noise. I created my circuit based on the multitudes of other circuits I've found out here and elsewhere including Gary's PI unit. They are all surprisingly similar so I used them as a basis for my design. The biggest difference is that I am using a PIC microcontroller with an ADC to sample the signal much like that of the GoldPIC design. After reading through the info on the GoldPIC it appears to get depth that is somewhat similar to mine so it sounds like direct sampling is going to provide less than optimal results. My next step is to add an integrator into the design and then sample the output of the integrator instead.

          I appreciate the feedback.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mts View Post
            Thanks straton. So it sounds like you don't think the coil is the main issue and that my depth is less than expected. I'll leave the coil as-is for now and concentrate on other issues in the circuit such as noise. I created my circuit based on the multitudes of other circuits I've found out here and elsewhere including Gary's PI unit. They are all surprisingly similar so I used them as a basis for my design. The biggest difference is that I am using a PIC microcontroller with an ADC to sample the signal much like that of the GoldPIC design. After reading through the info on the GoldPIC it appears to get depth that is somewhat similar to mine so it sounds like direct sampling is going to provide less than optimal results. My next step is to add an integrator into the design and then sample the output of the integrator instead.

            I appreciate the feedback.

            In order to construct a good coil you need an osciloscope. You need to get rid of ringing, if any. I suppose you followed gary's coils, you should be OK... but you have the PIC with the A/D converter! ...Do not excpect sensitivity out of this design...better stick with an the old integrator and analog switch design.

            Comment


            • #7
              Straton, I do have an oscilloscope and have adjusted the damping resistor appropriately. I've come to the same conclusion you have. My main problem is in trying to directly sample the signal without an integrator. I'm going to add the integrator stage and see where that takes me.

              Thanks for the feedback.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mts View Post
                Straton, I do have an oscilloscope and have adjusted the damping resistor appropriately. I've come to the same conclusion you have. My main problem is in trying to directly sample the signal without an integrator. I'm going to add the integrator stage and see where that takes me.

                Thanks for the feedback.

                Hi Mts. Unless you have a really fast ADC (I do not think a typical microcontroller has one... probably silicon labs analog devices or TI have very advanced) you are missing most of the signal...Expect 30% more depth with the integrator...but in any case, the noise is always a problem with digital electronics...have fun!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the help!

                  Comment

                  Working...