Can anyone explain the difference between a Pipe and Cable Locator and a Two Box MD?

[LSM]

Hi all. Ordinarily post on treasurenet, but felt this would be better posted here.

Quick question...

Can anyone explain the difference in operation between a "Pipe and Cable Locator" and a two box MD?

For example, here's a Pipe and Cable Locator (one I bought to tinker with)

http://goo.gl/3EUrN

Here's a Fisher Gemini III two box

http://goo.gl/58X5Q

In looking at them, aside from the mounting pole, they seem to be principally the same. Transmitter and receiver, they even look the same. Can anyone tell me the difference as far as what they do?

Here's an article that explains it a bit and is careful to articulate the difference between a magnetic locator and a pipe and cable locator, but it says...

But, sometimes the person doing the locating must induce a signal onto the line in order to be able to locate it. Most Pipe/Cable Locators have the ability to "induce" a signal onto an object (like a waterline) using a Transmitter, and the object must be metallic in order to conduct the signal.

... which hints that these might have use in treasure hunting applications, since the transmitter is effectively inducing the signal into the buried metallic object and the receiver is reading it? Isn't this basically what a two box MD does?

I'm lost. Any help appreciated.

[WM6]

Can anyone explain the difference in operation between a "Pipe and Cable Locator" and a two box MD?

For example, here's a Pipe and Cable Locator (one I bought to tinker with)

http://goo.gl/3EUrN

Here's a Fisher Gemini III two box

http://goo.gl/58X5Q

.

There is basically no difference between those two box devices, difference is only in name of intended use, but functionality are prety the same.

If you need real difference (in locating, pinpointing, and depth metering) then use this Pipe and Cable Locator (togheter with transmitter MXT). Usable to locating bigger deposit of precious metal too:

http://www.cslocators.com/products/index.php?id=2

[Altra]

Those units are very similar. Maybe different transmit frequencies?
As a "Two Box" unit the user can locate large metal objects while ignoring
small items. As a cable/pipe tracer, the boxes are removed from the pole. The transmit box has a output and short cable with alligator clips these are attached to the pipe or cable. The tx signal is transmitted through the cable or pipe while the operator waves the RX box back and fourth searching for the strongest audio response. In other words the cable or pipe become a TX antenna and the RX is similar to an AM radio. So as a "two box" unit, it operates as a TR metal detector. As a tracer the transmitter is stationary broadcasting to the receiver. Acting as an RF/emf detector.

[LSM]

I have this coming in, so I'll be able to tear it open and check it out.

Does anyone have any more info on this, in terms of what differentiates a pipe and cable locator from a two box MD

[Altra]

They are basically the same thing. If you work for the Utility Co. it's called a pipe and cable locator. If you are a treasure hunter it's a two box metal detector.

[kt315]

I have this coming in, so I'll be able to tear it open and check it out.

Does anyone have any more info on this, in terms of what differentiates a pipe and cable locator from a two box MD

this Fisher is poor plastic toy. do not waste your money on the garbage. all boxes had been open and all had been reasearched if you so need in photos I can put them here.

on the photos Delta in action. sorry I can not demonstrate you a target was found... it was very heavy to lift up

[mikebg]

New avatar of KT315

To KT315
Anatoly, in your new avatar is written the name of "Moammar Gadhafi" with large Russian letters, however in the picture is not mr. Gadhafi. I can not read what is written with small lettes below. Is this "Выходит в свой последний бой", as was showed by my OCR program or something else?. Please explain what represents your avatar and what is written with small leters!
Твой почитатель: Михаил Волков

[LSM]

I'm still questioning whether or not these two things (pipe locators and two box MD's) are simply 'the same'.

Here's the download library.
http://www.metrotech.com/downloadall...ers%20Download

In it, there's a file called "Pipe and Cable Location: Locator Theory".

Obviously, of most interest is the induction mode.
It seems as if there must be a great deal of distance between the transmitter and receiver in order to get an accurate reading (with the transmitter laid on the ground), whereas a two box MD simply operates with both units mounted on the same pole.

There are also some potential frequency differences?

Are we 100%, absolutely, positively that these are the same thing?

[kt315]

To KT315
Anatoly, in your new avatar is written the name of "Moammar Gadhafi" with large Russian letters, however in the picture is not mr. Gadhafi. I can not read what is written with small lettes below. Is this "Âûõîäèò â ñâîé ïîñëåäíèé áîé", as was showed by my OCR program or something else?. Please explain what represents your avatar and what is written with small leters!
Òâîé ïî÷èòàòåëü: Ìèõàèë Âîëêîâ

yes, this is "Âûõîäèò â ñâîé ïîñëåäíèé áîé", you are right. Moammar Gadhafi going to his last fight. pix was taken from demotivation.me.
your venerator too...

sorry people for same off-top...

[kt315]

Are we 100%, absolutely, positively that these are the same thing?

my counter question to you. you see here two Fishers. which is chinese crap one from those two? hoping you will call it right.

[chemelec]

I'm still questioning whether or not these two things (pipe locators and two box MD's) are simply 'the same'.

Here's the download library.
http://www.metrotech.com/downloadall...ers%20Download

In it, there's a file called "Pipe and Cable Location: Locator Theory".

Obviously, of most interest is the induction mode.
It seems as if there must be a great deal of distance between the transmitter and receiver in order to get an accurate reading (with the transmitter laid on the ground), whereas a two box MD simply operates with both units mounted on the same pole.

There are also some potential frequency differences?

Are we 100%, absolutely, positively that these are the same thing?

Commerical Made Pipe and Cable Locators are Not built like a conventional 2 Box locator which is just a metal detector.

Yes They are 2 Units, but the Method of detection is different.

On a Pipe and cable locator, The Transmit unit is CONNECTED DIRECTLY to the Pipe or Wire and it sends out a Modulated Signal Directly into that pipe or wire.
So the Pipe or Wire Becomes an underground Antenna.

With the Detector Section, it contains a Reciever Coil to try to trace the Modulated Signal to find the location of the pipe or wire as you walk on the ground above.

Thus it is Not an Induced Magnetic Field as is the case of a 2-Box metal Detector.

[Carl-NC]

A pipe & cable locator typically has a transmitter that connects to the pipe/cable, either physically or with an induction clamp, plus a receiver that is used to trace out the pipe/cable. The transmitter is placed at a fixed location and the receiver is mobile.

A 2-box locator is just an induction metal detector where the TX & RX coils are orthogonal. It is usually carried around as a single mobile assembly.

It so happens that the Fisher Gemini 3 can be used both ways. I have one, and found it to be quite good as a cable tracer, but only so-so as a 2-box. The TM808 is a better 2-box, but can't be used as a cable tracer. The TF900 is even a better 2-box, and at one time Discovery made a cable tracer adapter for it. Don't know how it worked for that, tho.

KT, both of those are Fisher units. The one on the left is the one I have, the one on the right has newer graphics.

- Carl

P.S. -- LSM, the Metrotech locator you linked to is identical to the Fisher in that it can be used as a 2-box or as a split cable locator. They don't show the connecting handle in the auction, and probably don't have it, which is very typical of 2-box locators; very often the handle is missing.

[LSM]

Yes They are 2 Units, but the Method of detection is different.

On a Pipe and cable locator, The Transmit unit is CONNECTED DIRECTLY to the Pipe or Wire and it sends out a Modulated Signal Directly into that pipe or wire.

Thus it is Not an Induced Magnetic Field as is the case of a 2-Box metal Detector.

When the Pipe locator is being used in 'induction mode' to transmit a signal through the ground without any direct connection to the object its detecting, what is it doing?

http://www.metrotech.com/Knowledge.a...ble%20Location

Start at Page 22/70.
On page 23/70, note "Induction Mode", where the transmitter induces a high frequency signal through the dirt and onto the object to be detected without hooking any wires to it.

[LSM]

P.S. -- LSM, the Metrotech locator you linked to is identical to the Fisher in that it can be used as a 2-box or as a split cable locator. They don't show the connecting handle in the auction, and probably don't have it, which is very typical of 2-box locators; very often the handle is missing.

Thanks for the info Carl.
Hopefully, it should be here next week and I'll give it a good workout.

[Altra]

This should clear it up for you . See attached wiring diagram