TESORO GOLDEN SABRE

[Qiaozhi]

i thought tesoro 4-pin connectors were 14-18 khz and the 5-pin connectors were 10khz

That makes sense, given that the TX coil (with the 4-pin) has a possible inductance of 1mH. I think the Troy detectors were designed to work at 20kHz. If someone has a 4-pin Tesoro coil in their collection, the ultimate test would be to measure the coil characteristics.
Anyone?

[dfbowers]

That makes sense, given that the TX coil (with the 4-pin) has a possible inductance of 1mH. I think the Troy detectors were designed to work at 20kHz. If someone has a 4-pin Tesoro coil in their collection, the ultimate test would be to measure the coil characteristics.
Anyone?

See the link to the coils parameters page above.


From what I understand, Troy Gallow enlisted Tesoro for help with the X2, and the coil should be the same as the Tesoro uMAX line.

Then I THINK he enlisted the help of Dave Johnson for the X5 and X3 (Same person that designed the MXT???) A different animal altogether.

[Qiaozhi]

See the link to the coils parameters page above.


From what I understand, Troy Gallow enlisted Tesoro for help with the X2, and the coil should be the same as the Tesoro uMAX line.

Then I THINK he enlisted the help of Dave Johnson for the X5 and X3 (Same person that designed the MXT???) A different animal altogether.

My recollection of the RX inductance was not correct. It is in fact 6.9mH, which matches [reasonably] closely with the coil chart. The TX was measured as 1.1mH.
So it appears that my Troy 9" concentric comes from either an X5 Shadow, or possibly an X3.

[dfbowers]

My recollection of the RX inductance was not correct. It is in fact 6.9mH, which matches [reasonably] closely with the coil chart. The TX was measured as 1.1mH.
So it appears that my Troy 9" concentric comes from either an X5 Shadow, or possibly an X3.

That would be consistent with the partial schematic of the X5 that was posted at one time. The X5 and X3 runs at 19kHz and the X2 runs at 10kHz.

Here are 2 of the 3 coils available for the X5 and X3, 5 pin.

[Qiaozhi]

That would be consistent with the partial schematic of the X5 that was posted at one time. The X5 and X3 runs at 19kHz and the X2 runs at 10kHz.

Here are 2 of the 3 coils available for the X5 and X3, 5 pin.

The circular coil is the one I have, but I cut the plug off some time ago ... and cannot remember if it was a 5-pin or a 4-pin.

[turtlebowl]

un stable threshold problem

Hello fellas. I have searched this thread for an answer to my unstable threshold. Maybe I haven't the right search words?
A finger pointing to the thread (as long as it's not the mid__ one) or Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have the Golden Sabre Plus Rev.A board. This is not a homebrew. Threshold is perfect when the re-tune button is held over but becomes chattery after releasing. It is not becuase the sensitivity is set to high. At least not becuase the pot is set high.
Lastly is the schematic for that machine the same as the GMT king cobra??
Tanks guys.

[manurespreder]

Hello there,

I am planing to do coil by myself. And now I am wondering about Cu wires.
In pdf about coil making is mentioned that wire should be 0.25mm Cu (0.27-0.28mm with resin layer). But in local shop there is only 0.3mm with resin layer. And I think that 0.3mm wire should be good too cause wire thickness doesn't change inductance only W.

So can anyone confirm that my thoughts are right?

Thank You all in advance!

[dfbowers]

Hello there,

I am planing to do coil by myself. And now I am wondering about Cu wires.
In pdf about coil making is mentioned that wire should be 0.25mm Cu (0.27-0.28mm with resin layer). But in local shop there is only 0.3mm with resin layer. And I think that 0.3mm wire should be good too cause wire thickness doesn't change inductance only W.

So can anyone confirm that my thoughts are right?

Thank You all in advance!

Using .3mm will change your inductance as well as resistance. The reason being is that more wire will be added to your coil in order to achieve the same number of turns. Your mean radius will increase as well as your outside diameter. Also, coil weight thickness will increase..

I have no doubt that you can get it to work with .3mm wire but you cannot use the guidelines in the .pdf and expect the same results.

I bought a roll of "BAE wire AWG 30 SPN RED MW80c/155C" off of e-bay cheap.. almost a lifetime supply..

[manurespreder]

Using .3mm will change your inductance as well as resistance. The reason being is that more wire will be added to your coil in order to achieve the same number of turns. Your mean radius will increase as well as your outside diameter. Also, coil weight thickness will increase..

I have no doubt that you can get it to work with .3mm wire but you cannot use the guidelines in the .pdf and expect the same results.

I bought a roll of "BAE wire AWG 30 SPN RED MW80c/155C" off of e-bay cheap.. almost a lifetime supply..

Ouuuh thank you. I am living in a crappy country called Lithuania so buying from ebay isn't very cheap cause delivery prices are hight.

Local assortment of parts are very bad and everything has high price how example LM309 costs 10$ each! on ebay I bought 10 for 12$ ...

And to buy Cu 0.27 is like impossible I can order only 0.3 and I have to wait a half of month to arrive..

[Qiaozhi]

Ouuuh thank you. I am living in a crappy country called Lithuania so buying from ebay isn't very cheap cause delivery prices are hight.

Local assortment of parts are very bad and everything has high price how example LM309 costs 10$ each! on ebay I bought 10 for 12$ ...

And to buy Cu 0.27 is like impossible I can order only 0.3 and I have to wait a half of month to arrive..

Here's the sort of difference you can expect between 0.27 mm and 0.3 mm.

[dfbowers]

That's not as bad as I would have thought. So going from .25mm to .3mm gives a difference of about .2mH. Adding sheilds always changes things as well. It can add up to 400pF to the total C depending on how well the wires are insulated. If that's all you have, I might be tempted to try .3mm wire. Just add about 5 turns more to the Rx coil.

Anyone else have any thoughts??

[simonbaker]

Using .3mm will change your inductance as well as resistance. The reason being is that more wire will be added to your coil in order to achieve the same number of turns. Your mean radius will increase as well as your outside diameter. Also, coil weight thickness will increase..

I have no doubt that you can get it to work with .3mm wire but you cannot use the guidelines in the .pdf and expect the same results.

I bought a roll of "BAE wire AWG 30 SPN RED MW80c/155C" off of e-bay cheap.. almost a lifetime supply..

I tried to make some RX coils with thick wire like that and had much trouble.

I'm not sure but I think the problem is that because the resistance is lower, it makes the Q of the resonant circuit much higher and changes the phase shift/frequency relationship which can throw off your discriminator unless you are very careful. It also magnifies the noise pickup at resonance (although it reduces it at off-resonance). But the TX signal is off-resonance, so it may be actually causing a type of signal-to-noise problem.

I tried experiments where I added a resistor to the RX coil to try to make it act like thinner wire. For some reason I did not have noticeable improvement, but in theory, that is a technique that may help. (Because I was experimenting with prototype circuits, I probably had poor depth for many other reasons too.)

All I know is I have not yet had good success with thick wire. However, I feel that with very careful design, it should be possible, and that using thick wire for the TX coil should actually be better potentially.

If it is the only wire you have available, I would go ahead and try it. And try putting a 15 ohm resistor in series with the RX coil. (It may also work to put a higher resistance resistor in parallel with the RX coil, but you need to calculate it to get the same Q.)

Regards,

-SB

[porkluvr]

I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but I think somebody is splitting hairs.

"Making coil for TGSL" suggests 25mm copper. According to my wire data reference, that is equivalent to something between 30AWG~30.5AWG.

Manurespreder wants to use what reads like a 29.5AWG equivalent. Can that really be a big problem?

Adding two turns to each coil should just about compensate inductance, and I think the reduced RX coil resistance (less by about 7 ohms) will cause less than 1 degree phase shift difference. No Big Deal.

Manurespreder did not say exactly what his copper thickness is, so this diatribe is based on an estimate based on incomplete data.

My wire data reference is from Allem.com

http://www.allem.com/files/magwiredim.pdf

[Qiaozhi]

I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but I think somebody is splitting hairs.

"Making coil for TGSL" suggests 25mm copper. According to my wire data reference, that is equivalent to something between 30AWG~30.5AWG.

Manurespreder wants to use what reads like a 29.5AWG equivalent. Can that really be a big problem?

Adding two turns to each coil should just about compensate inductance, and I think the reduced RX coil resistance (less by about 7 ohms) will cause less than 1 degree phase shift difference. No Big Deal.

Manurespreder did not say exactly what his copper thickness is, so this diatribe is based on an estimate based on incomplete data.

My wire data reference is from Allem.com

http://www.allem.com/files/magwiredim.pdf

I assume you meant to say 0.25mm copper.
Yes - I agree. The difference in coil resistance will have a negligible effect.

[simonbaker]

I don't want to step on anybody's toes, but I think somebody is splitting hairs.

"Making coil for TGSL" suggests 25mm copper. According to my wire data reference, that is equivalent to something between 30AWG~30.5AWG.

Manurespreder wants to use what reads like a 29.5AWG equivalent. Can that really be a big problem?

Adding two turns to each coil should just about compensate inductance, and I think the reduced RX coil resistance (less by about 7 ohms) will cause less than 1 degree phase shift difference. No Big Deal.

Manurespreder did not say exactly what his copper thickness is, so this diatribe is based on an estimate based on incomplete data.

My wire data reference is from Allem.com

http://www.allem.com/files/magwiredim.pdf

My wire thickness differences were a little bigger than that, so in my case it was resistance was about 7 ohms vs. 20 ohms, a very significant difference in Q.

However, you assume his circuit is tuned correctly -- if not, even a 50% resistance difference could cause some problem phase shift if TX freq and RX resonant freq are closer than they should be.

But I wouldn't let .3 mm wire stop me! Make the coils, let's see how they work!

-SB