blisstool ltc64x v2i

[WM6]

"...With the White's V3 in regular disc audio I would not have noticed it. In mixed-mode audio, it breaks through the AM signal slightly which I might have caught, and then short sweeps produced an occasional tone...."

Maybe a bit off topic; but this is most interesting part for me! I am waiting long time to read something like this. Exactly the same as my short experiences with Spectra. And i wonder why is like that? As old White's user and fan i was kind a disappointed with it. But i thought it is because of my misunderstanding of how to adjust Spectra... up to now.
Would be nice to start new topic only on Spectra subject and there to explain those little details. As White's EE, i guess, Carl you could give here most proper answers and explanations.

Did you noticed, that Carl say "I would not have". After my understand there was not real in field comparison with V3, only predictive conclusion.

And for sure Spectra is maybe the most advanced Whites VLF but not the deepest at the same time. Relative cheap M6 Matrix with 12" Excellerator coil can go deeper than V3 with the same coil.

But I am more interesting in comparison between Blisstool LTC64 and XP Deus.

[ivconic]

Did you noticed, that Carl say "I would not have". After my understand there was not real in field comparison with V3, only predictive conclusion.

And for sure Spectra is maybe the most advanced Whites VLF but not the deepest at the same time. Relative cheap M6 Matrix with 12" Excellerator coil can go deeper than V3 with the same coil.

But I am more interesting in comparison between Blisstool LTC64 and XP Deus.

No, no, you misunderstood my point!
It is not about depth! Who cares here about exact depth? Not me.
It is other issue; as Carl stated and as i experienced too: Spectra often produce occasional "beep" over not so deep target, not at every sweep but often at every second or third sweep?
Usually this happening when target is smaller item and more often when soil is mineralized. This is an issue, because i experienced that many times even with very shallow targets!?
So Carl's statement reminds me on that problem i faced already.

[Funfinder]

ivconic wrote:

Funfinder, i am not taking back my own words:
It is a CRAP! Complete CRAP!
Overpriced CRAP!
Uselless CRAP!
DIY GARAGE CRAP!
Ok?
Are you satisfied now?


__________________

No, because this is childish. Comparable with:
"I don't like my spinach. Period."

At least fill out the following:


__________________
Blisstool
-----------
Pro


Contra

= Result out of 100 ?
_____________________


____________________
Producer / Company of Blisstool
--------------------------
Pro

Contra

= Result out of 100 ?
_____________________________


(but here are starting the hidden facts,
and perhaps you want or must keep them secret
and therefore you have to projecting them to the first.)
_________________________________

Are you aware of that you are offending Carl indirectly
with your unobjective "Blisstool is crap" statements?
"How can a person be so stupid to buy such a CRAP at all?"

But you can't. He wouldn't buy it without good reason.

And he's the one that is capable to adjust all the poti's
and switches the right way after some training - he is
not like the people who could be the victim of your
opinion because all they know is to switch the MD on!

At least if you are fair you have to fill out the pro vs contra
for the Blisstool and give this detector a value somewhere
inbetween 0 to 100.

If you really have very good experience you also can
tell us what features a 100% MD must have.

Usually I would say to such opinions:
If someone doesn't has a certain detector he is not qualified!

But because it's you and so far we're all not here to fight
each others you can defend your viewpoints or convictions
but I wanna hear provable arguments and very good alternatives
to the Blisstool!

And if we are lucky Carl will test them too, sometimes!

However, it doesn't looks like that he is very sad about the
Blisstool LTC64 v3 so far and if there's a way for him to work
at higher gain he may have the same experience as Daniel Tn.

I hope now we get some realistic estimation from you including
good reasons why concering the Blisstool because Carl for shure
will not give him just crap 0 points, that should be clear already!

But of course you can repeat the above quoted "sh*t"-statement...
Just do it if you dare! And you don't must write pro and contra.

But if you do so I will ignore you completly like WM6 because
this is not the kind of a person I can take seriously any longer!

And alot other persons here may think exactly the same...

Now it's your turn.

[Carter NY]

Hello Carl - I received my Blisstool LTX64 V3 mid March. I took it down to VA and did the videos with John Kendrick and the others you see on youtube. Two and a half months later, I feel very comfortable with this machine.

The Blisstool, at gain=1, gives a very clear response, no question. Oddly, I could only run the gain at 1, no higher. At G=2, the response decreased slightly, and the noise increases. At G=3, the target response was gone. I'm wondering if the preamp is overloading.

I have used an E-Trac for years and I'm very happy with its performance. Like most detectors though, if you turn down the sensitivity to half power, your ability to go deep is drastically reduced. This is not the case with the Bliss. I found that the Bliss is so powerful that you can run your gain at 10% (1 out of 10) and still get impressive depth. When in VA, in the harsh red dirt, I could not run it more than 1.5 - 2. The Whites TDI located a deep signal that ended up being a round ball about 12" deep. Looking at his signal, when I turned the gain up to 5, it broke up like iron. As I lowered the gain, the signal started coming back and sounded best at 1.5 gain. I find this only with "polluted" dirt. Here in the North East, the mineralization is mild and I run the gain at 5-7.

Also, the unit is susceptible to RF interference and I had to adjust the Freq control to find a stable point. Fortunately, it has fine control and very easy to do by ear.

We spend a lot of time detecting farm fields in April and these fields went right up to the edge of the road where there were power lines. Sometimes the frequency adjust would help but the chatter was still there. What I found is after finding the best frequency, adjust your Silencer up until the chatter fades. I was still finding targets within the 10" plow line while working near the road. The chatter was totally gone.

Ground balance was extremely touchy, even with the Fine control. It's a knife-edge setting, and I fear that moving across even slightly variable ground might be a problem. However, I didn't get to test for this. But it did balance out the mineral pit. I briefly switched to Auto GB but it didn't seem to dial in so I quickly gave up on it.

In VA, the ground Rudely was set to 8+. In the harsh dirt, we could not GB using Auto. Once set in manual GB, we did not need to re adjust.

Finally, I briefly played with the Disc controls but, having not read the manual, I wasn't sure how it works. It seemed to reasonably break up nail signals while still getting the quarter. Have no idea what the toggle switches do so I didn't mess with them.

The Bliss will not knock out more than shards of foil but it will do a good job on small iron. The Discr Level can also be used to eliminate the effects of salt water while hunting in wet sand. Regarding the Discr Toggle, I have tested this extensively on good deep targets and it appears position "III" is the weakest with position "I" being the strongest discriminating filter. I always run at Disc III and have no problem with the iron. My deep signals sound better on Discr III.

Overall, the unit seems to have a lot of potential, I just need to work with it more, and I really need to read the manual. If I get a chance, I'll take it out on a hunt this weekend.

The manual is in "Bulgarian English" and may seem a little confusing .

If you are running lower gain, you can lower your Discr Depth as well. If you are in bad dirt running low gain with high Discr Depth, you will break up on good targets. Good luck this weekend.

Carter

[ivconic]

ivconic wrote:

Funfinder, i am not taking back my own words:
It is a CRAP! Complete CRAP!
Overpriced CRAP!
Uselless CRAP!
DIY GARAGE CRAP!
Ok?
Are you satisfied now?


__________________

No, because this is childish. Comparable with:
"I don't like my spinach. Period."

At least fill out the following:


__________________
Blisstool
-----------
Pro


Contra

= Result out of 100 ?
_____________________


____________________
Producer / Company of Blisstool
--------------------------
Pro

Contra

= Result out of 100 ?
_____________________________


(but here are starting the hidden facts,
and perhaps you want or must keep them secret
and therefore you have to projecting them to the first.)
_________________________________

Are you aware of that you are offending Carl indirectly
with your unobjective "Blisstool is crap" statements?
"How can a person be so stupid to buy such a CRAP at all?"

But you can't. He wouldn't buy it without good reason.

And he's the one that is capable to adjust all the poti's
and switches the right way after some training - he is
not like the people who could be the victim of your
opinion because all they know is to switch the MD on!

At least if you are fair you have to fill out the pro vs contra
for the Blisstool and give this detector a value somewhere
inbetween 0 to 100.

If you really have very good experience you also can
tell us what features a 100% MD must have.

Usually I would say to such opinions:
If someone doesn't has a certain detector he is not qualified!

But because it's you and so far we're all not here to fight
each others you can defend your viewpoints or convictions
but I wanna hear provable arguments and very good alternatives
to the Blisstool!

And if we are lucky Carl will test them too, sometimes!

However, it doesn't looks like that he is very sad about the
Blisstool LTC64 v3 so far and if there's a way for him to work
at higher gain he may have the same experience as Daniel Tn.

I hope now we get some realistic estimation from you including
good reasons why concering the Blisstool because Carl for shure
will not give him just crap 0 points, that should be clear already!

But of course you can repeat the above quoted "sh*t"-statement...
Just do it if you dare! And you don't must write pro and contra.

But if you do so I will ignore you completly like WM6 because
this is not the kind of a person I can take seriously any longer!

And alot other persons here may think exactly the same...

Now it's your turn.

Of course it is childish!
Whole our debate and argue is childish!
Don't take it so personally nor seriously!
It's all fun, humor, mockery and maybe sometimes we do cross the borders.
Now; if you want my realy serious opinion, here it is:
* Bliss is homebrew (diy) project and it is made pretty descent, considering it's outlook.
* It is basically Wave or if you like: Magnum.
* Seems designer is fully aware of all known Wave drawbacks and that's why he included many trimmers and extra components; to smooth up some signals and to optimize circuitry as best as it will allow.
* Bliss, as it is now, is not real CRAP, and i am sorry because my wrong use of term "crap" is understood on the way i didn't wanted nor ment at the first place. When i said "crap" i ment it is just another homebrew in a very long line of similar: TGSL, Wave, IGSL, Volksturm, Anker, SMW, Caesar, Pirate, Golden Mask....etc...etc...etc.
* It will do the job descently on some soils, it will not satisfy on some other soils. Not a big deal. Same story as with all other detectors.
* My main reason to be here in this topic and to debate is not because i have something agains Bliss nor his designer! Not at all! Only reason why i joined here is because i was provoked with that stupid youtube video advertisment "beach&chain" where those people are trying to twist the truth and to pervert some important facts! That's all!
...
Funfnder; sometimes you are so "pushy" and persistent and that's why i started to argue with you: just for fun, no other reason.


Ok, that was all. Hopefully you will now understand?
...

"...If you really have very good experience you also can
tell us what features a 100% MD must have...."

Tough to form proper list of desires, but let me say that Deus is closest so far to fulfill all my desires related to metal detector performances.

"...At least if you are fair you have to fill out the pro vs contra
for the Blisstool and give this detector a value somewhere
inbetween 0 to 100..."

I am not fair person at all. But this time only i will try to give you answer on that.
Value for Bliss, from 0 to 100: 55-60
Value for Spectra from 0 to 100: 80
Value for Explorer SE from 0 to 100: 90
Value for Deus from 0 to 100: 95
Value for IGSL from 0 to 100: 50-70 (depends, i can not be that objective)
Value for SMW from 0 to 100: 55
Value for TGSL from 0 to 100: 70
etc...etc..etc
Insisting on such "table" is pointless, because we all are quite different people with much different habits and desires, working conditions, sites, soils, targets.... Pointless!

"...Are you aware of that you are offending Carl indirectly
with your unobjective "Blisstool is crap" statements?..."

Ahahahahahahaha! Don't worry!
He is already well used on much worse things than that.
Besides; he is owner and administrator: always can give us foot in our lower back, out from this place!
So...don't worry!

[Funfinder]

Hi ivconic,

now we are on a much better level. Answer accepted.

> Don't take it so personally nor seriously!
> It's all fun, humor, mockery and maybe sometimes we do cross the borders.

Fine, if you say so, then are your statements some kind of
ironical and joking exaggeration - but seems your posts only.


> i was provoked with that stupid youtube video advertisment "beach&chain"

Come on, perhaps this video was the same joke like you do here.
Don't take such a video personally. The XP Deus is known well
enough over the world for it's great performance.


> Funfinder; sometimes you are so "pushy" and persistent

Of course, I'm taking serious things serious and funny things funny.
Not messing things up and creating total shambles.
And therefore I'm the victim for pranks of "evil kids" that just wanna
play, provocate and make jokes about such guys ?!?
Reminds me of Henderson in the DVD "Beavis and Butt-Head
do America" I saw today.


> Value for Bliss, from 0 to 100: 55-60

Great, because the Bliss also "does America" meanwhile.

55-60 also is a bit over-average.

Thx for your assiduity task with the values for all those other MDs.
The Deus is your absolute favorite I guess. At least it is more
lightweight and costs much less as the Minelab GPX 5000.


> Ahahahahahahaha! Don't worry!
> He is already well used on much worse things than that.
> Besides; he is owner and administrator: always can give us foot in our
> lower back, out from this place!
> So...don't worry!

I'm not worried, I'd love to see how he kicks some butt!

Of course not yours, because your formerly posting has
proven that you really could be good if you just want it.

[Carl-NC]

One thing I forgot to mention... weight is 4 lbs 2-3 oz, which is not as bad as I thought. It's about the same as my Spectra V3, but a little heavier in the loop.

Also, I stopped by work today and tried the Deus on the 8" quarter in the mineral pit. It didn't make a peep. In fairness to the Deus, I don't know how to run it yet, but I did have sensitivity maxxed out.

- Carl

[Daniel Tn]

I'm running into the same thing....can't find a place to run gain higher than 2.....most of the time its between 1 and 1.5. I also have to manual GB and that is very correct to say it is very finicky to get just right.

I however, am struggling with iron sounding good IN GROUND then once you dig, they break up when the coil comes closer to them. I can knock them out totally but in doing so, I lose the deeper non ferrous things in the process. Yesterday my buddy got a nice brass hit on his T2 and I ran the Blisstool over it and it was gone...sputtering broken signal just like iron. From his TID numbers we knew it was a good target...I was able to tune it in via Disc Depth but once I started actually hunting with it at the setting, I began digging nails like crazy that sound good initially then once dug out, they are broken up. I left VERY frustrated with a full pouch of iron...and very few goodies. I could get them AND knock out the iron but only the bullets/buttons shallower than 5 inches.

[ivconic]

One thing I forgot to mention... weight is 4 lbs 2-3 oz, which is not as bad as I thought. It's about the same as my Spectra V3, but a little heavier in the loop.

Also, I stopped by work today and tried the Deus on the 8" quarter in the mineral pit. It didn't make a peep. In fairness to the Deus, I don't know how to run it yet, but I did have sensitivity maxxed out.

- Carl

Not you Carl!
Ooooh cheeseee!
I give up!
Quarter is some 24-25mm, so it is not small coin at all.
Deus will EAT it at such easy depth of 8" (~20cm) no matter if soil is heavily infested and poluted.
And you know it already much better than that!!!
...
I should spit on Spectra now... but i can't, still like it a bit.

[TwaGleeSd]

Hi
sry because i intervened,but ivconic have you read my request (i post in TGSL-VLF)? plz some help
sry again

[ivconic]

I'm running into the same thing....can't find a place to run gain higher than 2.....most of the time its between 1 and 1.5. I also have to manual GB and that is very correct to say it is very finicky to get just right.

I however, am struggling with iron sounding good IN GROUND then once you dig, they break up when the coil comes closer to them. I can knock them out totally but in doing so, I lose the deeper non ferrous things in the process. Yesterday my buddy got a nice brass hit on his T2 and I ran the Blisstool over it and it was gone...sputtering broken signal just like iron. From his TID numbers we knew it was a good target...I was able to tune it in via Disc Depth but once I started actually hunting with it at the setting, I began digging nails like crazy that sound good initially then once dug out, they are broken up. I left VERY frustrated with a full pouch of iron...and very few goodies. I could get them AND knock out the iron but only the bullets/buttons shallower than 5 inches.

Honest and fair report Daniel!
Exactly same as if you described Wave! I made Wave 3 years ago and went with it on several terrains. Had exactly the same issues. Can go deep, can be sweet (mostly on clean soils) but also can be a pain in the... lower back! Overall; statistic of detected and discovered targets is not good (90% iron - 10% nonferrous), at least here on majority of local soils. Last year i made a bit modified Wave: same statistic.
So, it can be quite alright on clean soils, no doubts. But even than it can struggle with distinguishing the type of just bit deeper items in soil.
I had a lot of problems with it on one site where small and tiny silver medieval coins were expected. That soil was also heavily infested with iron particles and chunks. That day i founded no coins at all there.
Same day i finally lost my nerves with it and it was the last time i went with Wave outdoor.
Few weeks ago i visited same site with Deus and collected 8 perfectly fine silver coins, 42 bronze coins and had only 2 irons.
Cheers!

[barryny]

play with the disc toggle switch

Hi Dan - as suggested by some experienced Blisstool users on another forum - please try Disc toggle #1 (maximum disc) to see if that helps knock out the iron in your highly mineralized soil, while keeping the non-ferrous from breaking up...

[Carl-NC]

Not you Carl!
Ooooh cheeseee!
I give up!
Quarter is some 24-25mm, so it is not small coin at all.
Deus will EAT it at such easy depth of 8" (~20cm) no matter if soil is heavily infested and poluted.
And you know it already much better than that!!!
...
I should spit on Spectra now... but i can't, still like it a bit.

Sorry, I only report what happened. However, I also took the Deus to an old town where the sidewalks had been torn out. With it I found 2 Seated dimes, a Barber dime, an Indian penny, and a V nickel. No doubt about it, the super-fast response was a big plus. However, I will also say that the all-metal pinpoint really sucked... no depth compared to the disc mode.

When I finished with the Deus, I took the Spectra V3 and found 2 more Barber dimes, a Canadian dime, 3 Indian pennies, and 2 V nickels. Stereo mixed mode on the V3 is just as wickedly effective as the fast response on the Deus. Finally, I want to take the Blisstool in and see if there are deep targets I missed.

- Carl

[ivconic]

Sorry, I only report what happened. However, I also took the Deus to an old town where the sidewalks had been torn out. With it I found 2 Seated dimes, a Barber dime, an Indian penny, and a V nickel. No doubt about it, the super-fast response was a big plus. However, I will also say that the all-metal pinpoint really sucked... no depth compared to the disc mode.

When I finished with the Deus, I took the Spectra V3 and found 2 more Barber dimes, a Canadian dime, 3 Indian pennies, and 2 V nickels. Stereo mixed mode on the V3 is just as wickedly effective as the fast response on the Deus. Finally, I want to take the Blisstool in and see if there are deep targets I missed.

- Carl

I believe you; Deus (like any other complex md) will need certain learning curve to be fully mastered.
But it will be piece of cake for you.
Just give it a chance.
Quick hint:
* Pick GMP program,
* Rise Sense to 94,
* Lower coil at 3" above soil surface, make 4-5 (or more, because sometimes it can be slow in initial readings) wide swings to allow it to "read" the GB.
* Push GB knob and manually adjust GB just bit above displayed GB value on upper GB part of LCD.
(If it read GB as 83 (for example) than adjust GB value to ...let's say 85)
* Make wider swings over target. If you suspect mixed signal (iron near to coin) just switch to Fast program and check the signal with shorter swings.
* Return to GMP
* Keep in mind that Deus will not remember your fresh settings if you don't Save them under current program you are using at the moment.

That's all (and enough) for a start. The rest you will dig out very easy.
....

"...all-metal pinpoint really sucked..."

I do know what are you saying!
I felt exactly the same at the beginning!
But WAIT! Give it chance too!
Because it's All Metal mode is SPLENDID! Only you have to understand how to handle it.
* Switch to All Metal Mode (ppoint, bottom knob)
Lower coil to proper distance from soil (this depends on suspected target and other factors, i am sure you will understand what is all about).
* Press knob again and hold it while lowering/lifting coil. Now you retuned it like that. Kind a balanced.
* Retuned as that Deus will work SPLENDID in AM mode ONLY if you maintain same or close coil distance from soil. And it will go deeeeeep! You'll see.
Ok, it was first AM mode. Press knob again, it will enter in another AM mode (this time is nonmotion with disc scale and vco audio).
With Disc scale and very nice VCO this mode reminds me much on working with Cscope 1220b.
Play a bit with adjustments in that mode.
Press knob again. Returns to first AM mode. Etc...etc...etc..
First few weeks i was also very disappointed with it's AM/PP mode until i took manual and saw all the details! It is actually SPLENDID!
Learning curve....you know!

Spectra... i can't say almost nothing about it. Had it in my hands few times for few minutes.
I know it is very good. It is so obvious. But i don't have experiences with it at all.
Regards!

[hdphilip]

remove blisstool from tech fourm

moderators of geotech,

It would seem to me that sense this "blisstool" is a production unit and not a "production kit" of any form, and nor the creators have shown us pictures of insides of the unit, or any technology involved, It should be posted in the "buy, sell, trade" period

Let the makers of blisstool promote their product in other areas...........

or make another category as metal detectors reviews

Thank you,

Philip

now, let me go post some updates to a real project, at least to promote some thinking